Blood Enemies Questions

[Paul Lefebvre]

MagnusKhn@aol.com wrote:

>
>
> Regardless of what Tolkien wrote for his NOVELS, this is a GAME, and
> in BR
> the elves are well balanced in mechanics, while preserving their
> traditional
> style. Why can't elves from FR be this well done? My first warning
> sign of a
> powergamer is finding out that they play elves (especially Grey and
> Drow)
> constantly, but have never even tried to play a halfling or gnome, and
>
> sometimes not even a dwarf. In BR, playing an elf means that you have
> a big
> roleplaying challenge cut out for you, something that a true
> ROLE-player
> usually enjoys. Irda are even worse in DL, because they are even MORE
> powerful than elves, with fewer disadvantages! Not that elves have any
> really
> bad disadvantage in the generic worlds... -1 Con, and a personality so
>
> stereotyped it's sickening to me to meet 'yet another snobby, arrogant
>
> elf'...
> The whole arguement about NUMBERS of a race doesn't even apply, you
> play 1
> character, not a whole race, so the game must be balanced (at least
> mechanics-wise) on an individual basis. I am not concerned with humans
> being
> the BEST race in any setting, I am concerned that, for game purposes,
> there
> should NOT be a "best" race at all...
>
> ...(V)agnus |{haine...

We're going at this from totally different directions then. I'm
personally not even looking at the game mechanics of the whole thing.
It doesn't matter to me for this discussion. I was simply looking at
the whole world view. From that angle, sometimes things aren't fair and
the elves or dwarves or woozits or whatever might be on top of the other
races. In terms of game mechanics, you are correct. In many of the
systems there are unbalanced races....however, usually, it is the later,
add-on rules in some handbook or other which make the race more
powerful...
Ever see a thri-kreen from Dark Sun?? Ever try using them with
every optional rule in the Thri-Kreen of athas book? It's just not
funny. Not only that, but it wrecks the game for the other players who
have to sit by and watch this giant talking bug make hamburger out of
the party's enemies. But the key to remember is that these rules are
optional. The Drow of the Underdark book allowed PCs to be drow. Now
unfortunately, the drow are really powerful characters that shouldn't be
used intact in a campaign with normal characters (I used one once in 8
years in a campaign in Undermountain and the Sword Coast), she could do
everything so it wasn't that exciting). A drow on the surface loses
innate spells, magic resistance, is practically blind, and is hated by
EVERYONE he meets. MAYBE, just maybe, that's grounds to allow one in a
campaign. But who the heck would he play with? An elf? A dwarf?
Halflings will most likely run screaming. Humans might accept one, but
he'd run into trouble every town he visited. However, if you played a
campaign in Menzoberranzan, that's a different matter. If everyone has
the exact same powers, then there's no advantage. I think that a lot of
these races are created for their novelty (ie. Irda, Drow) etc and you
wouldn't want to use one all the time.
Concerning the grey elves, I've never played one, but looking at the
elven handbook, I see no reason to think that they are unbalanced...from
what I remember, they don't have ANY powers more than standard elves
do. Maybe in Greyhawk, they are allowed more abilities or something,
but then I've never played in that campaign world.
I don't agree that someone can't be a good role player without
having tried to play a gnome or halfling..I think it's all a matter of
personal preference. The important thing in this game, is to have fun.
And if having fun involves, using an elf, a dwarf, human, gnome, or
centipede, do so.
Concerning power gaming, I think the problem lies less with race
than in questions of alignment. Players who play characters of evil
alignment tend to unbalance a party. As a DM, I set a strict limit by
not allowing any of my players to play evil characters. I've seen and
heard many people defend the position of playing an evil character. All
I've seen it as is an excuse to bully other player characters, gain
magic the easy way (mugging NPCs etc). And then these players get upset
when the city guard or some paladin come along and take them down.
That, to me, is a real problem with powergaming.

Paul L.

[Paul Lefebvre]

Darkstar wrote:

> DURKS95@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > If I recall correctly, Un-blooded elves can cast true magic.
> >
> > Quote form the Rulebook
> > "True magic include all other schools fo magic, but only elves,
> half-elves
> > and blooded humans can command it's arcane power."
> >
> Doesn't it say right underneath that
> "Wizards must be born with the stuff of magic in their veins to wield
> spells of 3rd level or higher from all schools of magic"
>
> I have always read this to mean that Elves, and Half-Elves could cast
> true magic, just not as well as blooded characters anymore. That is
> how
> I have been running it in my campaign.
>
> NOTE: Magicians can only cast spells up to 2nd level from other
> spheres
> so this is different from them.
>
> --
> Ian Hoskins

True magic is all spells of 3rd level or higher in all schools.
Lesser magic is greater divination and illusion, and all other schools
up to 2nd level. However, realm magic is the realm spells (magic that
requires a source holding and/or ley lines to cast). Non-blooded elves
and half-elves, according to the rulebook, can use true magic.
Non-blooded humans are limited to lesser magic. A bloodline is required
to use realm magic...elves use true magic (without bloodlines) just as
easily as blooded humans use it.

Paul L.

[MagnusKhn@aol.co]

Well, thank you all for your ideas and comments, the fresh perspectives
helped alot! I think I have a way to resolve alot of things that seemed
inconsistent before.

...(V)agnus |{haine...

[MHahn59022@aol.co]

In a message dated 97-08-22 03:18:14 EDT, you write:

>
The High Mage Aelies, who is a half-elf, seems to be immortal, and he spends
most of his time out of the elven forests.

[alex glemzu]

Magic in the heart.

[MagnusKhn@aol.co]

Elves CAN use TRUE magic without bloodlines, but REALM magic is a different
story. TRUE magic is spell level 3-9 of Abjuration, Evocation, Alteration,
Conjuration, Necromancy, and Enchantment. Levels 1 & 2 of those schools, and
the entire schools of Divination and Illusion are LOW magic. REALM magic are
those spells specific to birthright, useable only by a REGENT (who, of
course, is also blooded)

...(V)agnus |{haine...

[DURKS95@aol.co]

I don't think you should punish someone for just being evil, yes if he
commits an evil act that gets him in trouble, well it's his own fault, but
don't just kill his character because he wanted an evil guy.

[¼Õ ´©¸®(Son, Nuree]

$)C> From: MHahn59022@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Blood Enemies Questions
>
> they live in the Elven forests. If they leave and live in the realms of
> men then they will start to age. >>
>
> The High Mage Aelies, who is a half-elf, seems to be immortal, and he
spends
> most of his time out of the elven forests.

In my campaign, High Mage Aelies has the Long Life blood ability. I said to
my players so he was nearly immortal. I don't think half-elves are
immortal.

- - Son, Nuree

[George Chatzipetros]

----
From: DURKS95@aol.com
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: =D3=DC=E2=E2=E1=F4=EF, 23 =C1=F5=E3=EF=FD=F3=F4=EF=F5 1997 3:04 =EC=
=EC
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Blood Enemies Questions

>I don't think you should punish someone for just being evil, yes if he
>commits an evil act that gets him in trouble, well it's his own fault,
but
>don't just kill his character because he wanted an evil guy.

And Birthright is just the right seting for someone to be evil. I mean,ho=
w
many good monarchs do u know to exist in medieval europe? Being greedy,
wanting to asume more power is only natural when you're a wealthy king, a=
n
influential priest or a major guildmaster.

George, neon@mail.otenet.gr

"I've got to get me a gun. Guns made everything right" -- R. Valentin
"You can't fight against the future. Time is on our side" -- W.E.
Gladstone

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/8046 -- The Transcendence Freeware
RPG

[DURKS95@aol.co]

Well in that case it sounds good enough for me, To try to control evil is
foolish. But personally I like playing some evil guys, they're fun, and NO i
usually don't kill me own party, Is it not smarter to let them die by the
enemy than by yourslef, It's so much easier, and a lot less messier. And they
help you survive, being evil doens't mean being stupid.