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Thread: Lieutenants

  1. #11
    Eric Dunn
    Guest

    Lieutenants

    At 03:32 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote:
    >James Ruhland wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> > IMHO:
    >> >
    >> > Anyone who is not a regent gets one action a domain turn.
    >> >
    >> Hmmmmn. . .that doesn't sound right. You mean unblooded and Scion
    >> (non-Regent PCs even) only get one action per turn?
    >
    >Yes, that is exactly correct[I think]. To "get on the board" you do a
    >"Create Holding" action, and from then on 3 actions.
    >
    >Tripp

    Well, that really brings in two questions.. one of which occupied this list
    for too long, and you can't really group them together--Scion's and
    unblooded Regents.

    Of course, my opinion is that unblooded and Regent don't really belong in
    the same sentence. (As someone distinguished that Regent with the capital
    "R" is one who has a domain, and is blooded, and one with a lower case "r"
    is simply someone who's ruling, but really has no basis for it, except
    perhaps charisma, and therefore is highly suseptible to a blooded regent or
    scion to come in and take the non-existent domain.)

    So, when it shakes down, unblooded get NO domain actions, and Scions and
    LT's get one. As soon as a scion gets a holding, he is now a Regent, and a
    Vassal, pending an investiture, and gets 3 domain actions.

    On a totally seperate note, I would say that the newly created
    vassal/regent would become an NPC and cease being a henchman, albeit a VERY
    closely allied NPC.

    E

    Eric Dunn
    eric@cyberserv.com
    ICQ#4332602
    [This space for rent.]

  2. #12
    James Ruhland
    Guest

    Lieutenants

    IMO the below is sounding more and more correct (Orthodox)
    >
    > The "case" is that you are absolutely correct. The Regent can have his
    > Lieutenant do 1 domain/realm action once per domain turn regardless of
    how
    > many Lt's that he/she/it may have. Each of those Lt's however, can do
    2-3
    > "character" actions per domain turn (depending on if the regent assigns a
    > domain action to one of the Lt's or not) on their own. So If a Mage
    regent
    > has 3 Lt's, he can have one cast a realm spell for him, and have him use
    the
    > remaining two months in spell research, while the remaining two can do
    > adventure actions: i.e. spell research etc for their 3 character actions.
    > At least this is how I read it in the rulebook under Lt's....
    >
    Oh, I definately don't want Lts doing more than one Realm/Domain action per
    turn. That would get sick. . .but I agree with the above, and the below,
    that they can do Character/Free actions as frequently as a normal person.

    > it doesn't say that you can't tell your louies to do other
    > CHARACTER/FREE actions for you or your domain every turn. Thus you can
    > only get one lieutenant to do one domain/realm action for you in a turn,
    > but you can could conceivably get all your lieutenants to say, adventure
    > to solve X number of random events in your domain.
    >
    > Or you can just say 'screw the rules', this is my campaign and I'll do
    > what I want with it. :-D Thats always a free action (and thus, anyone
    > can do it!)
    >
    > Darren


    Ok, agreed with what follows, as stated. But the Q. pertained to how many
    *Character* actions these blighters (LTs and unblooded/Scions) get per turn
    (total).
    >
    > So, when it shakes down, unblooded get NO domain actions, and Scions and
    > LT's get one. As soon as a scion gets a holding, he is now a Regent, and
    a
    > Vassal, pending an investiture, and gets 3 domain actions.
    >
    > >> Hmmmmn. . .that doesn't sound right. You mean unblooded and Scion
    > >> (non-Regent PCs even) only get one action per turn?
    > >
    > >Yes, that is exactly correct[I think]. To "get on the board" you do a
    > >"Create Holding" action, and from then on 3 actions.
    > >
    > >Tripp


    .

  3. #13
    Eric Dunn
    Guest

    Lieutenants

    >So, when it shakes down, unblooded get NO domain actions, and Scions and
    >LT's get one. As soon as a scion gets a holding, he is now a Regent, and a
    >Vassal, pending an investiture, and gets 3 domain actions.
    >
    Oh, to clarify--if the unblooded was a LT, he would get the one action :).
    BTW, I think this in itself validates the fact that the only way unblooded
    characters really get actions, or any sense of ruling at all, is through
    regency given them by blooded characters.

    E

  4. #14
    Bret W. Davenport
    Guest

    Lieutenants

    > Hmmmmn. . .that doesn't sound right. You mean unblooded and Scion
    > (non-Regent PCs even) only get one action per turn?

    Let me put my hat into the mix, if only briefly. There should be a clear
    distinction between Domain Actions and Character/Free Actions. The one
    action per turn rule is only in regards to Domain Actions.

    An unblooded character(PC or NPC), would have its 3 actions (basically 3
    months) of Character/Free actions to perform each turn, if you even
    bothered to track it that way. The same is held true for the non-regent
    Blooded character.

    Also, a little tale about a lieutenant to tell...
    I had one lieutenant in a campaign who was directed to invade a near-by
    territory. After doing that, during the next turn, after the new province
    was invested, they were directed to create a law holding. Now, as a PC,
    they had some designs on rulership of their own. During the 2nd action
    round of the turn, they went on an adventure seeking a rare artifact
    (unbeknownst to the Regent) that they heard was within the Province they
    just captured - a character action. Successfully completing the adventure,
    they used their final month/action to hire troops under her own banner,
    persuade or defeat the armies belong to the other regent, and start a
    rebellion - I considered this another character action. To start the next
    turn, she was no longer a Lieutenant of the Regent, but a renegade force.
    However, because she occupied the territory, held all the forces within it,
    and had a priest with bloodline and realm powers in her service, I allowed
    her to begin with an Investiture spell to claim the province as her own,
    and begin her Regency. It's locale was favorable, and she had "adventure"
    funds to muster more armies, not to mention a Priest with strong Realm
    Magic to hold off any advances while she worked some treaties and alliances
    out. In the end, it began what would be a solid, but never spectacular
    reign. A hard way to start, and full of many pitfalls (which would
    eventually lead to her untimely demise, years later), but fun and
    challenging all the same.

    Bret

  5. #15
    James Ruhland
    Guest

    Lieutenants

    Of course the moral of the below story is that a Regent might be better off
    if his Louies were largely worthless layabouts. . . .
    >
    > Also, a little tale about a lieutenant to tell...
    > I had one lieutenant in a campaign who was directed to invade a near-by
    > territory. After doing that, during the next turn, after the new
    province
    > was invested, they were directed to create a law holding. Now, as a PC,
    > they had some designs on rulership of their own. During the 2nd action
    > round of the turn, they went on an adventure seeking a rare artifact
    > (unbeknownst to the Regent) that they heard was within the Province they
    > just captured - a character action. Successfully completing the
    adventure,
    > they used their final month/action to hire troops under her own banner,
    > persuade or defeat the armies belong to the other regent, and start a
    > rebellion - I considered this another character action. To start the
    next
    > turn, she was no longer a Lieutenant of the Regent, but a renegade force.

    > However, because she occupied the territory, held all the forces within
    it,
    > and had a priest with bloodline and realm powers in her service, I
    allowed
    > her to begin with an Investiture spell to claim the province as her own,
    > and begin her Regency. It's locale was favorable, and she had
    "adventure"
    > funds to muster more armies, not to mention a Priest with strong Realm
    > Magic to hold off any advances while she worked some treaties and
    alliances
    > out. In the end, it began what would be a solid, but never spectacular
    > reign. A hard way to start, and full of many pitfalls (which would
    > eventually lead to her untimely demise, years later), but fun and
    > challenging all the same.
    >
    > Bret
    >
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  6. #16
    Jan Arnoldus
    Guest

    Lieutenants

    I think that the idea of Lieutenant was introduced to have a means of doing
    actions which would otherwise be impossible. For example, in this way the
    simple fighter regent can have a wizard lieutenant who can cast spells, etc.
    I don't think lieutenants were invented to hire by the tens, then let them
    all train their hitpoints and proficiencies up to the max. If any player of
    mine tried to take advantage of this I would certainly yank him back.
    Everybody has to make his own houserules ofcourse, but I would advice a bit
    of restraint. The lieutenant is there to make things possible which
    otherwise wouldn't be, not to exploit.

    Just my 20GB, Jan Arnoldus

  7. #17
    James Ruhland
    Guest

    Lieutenants

    Oh; as to hiring Lts by the tens; if I'm lucky enough to have a action to
    get a Lt on the occasion, I count my blessings. (I keep planning to get
    some family member Lts in a certain PBeM game, but events keep me so busy
    that it's always "next turn I'll get him". . .and then "next turn", see my
    point?)
    Oh, and as for taking advantage of the rules like that (having them train
    their HP up to the max), any rule (well, almost any) can be abused, just as
    magic items can be abused (like players using a Mirror of Mental Prowess to
    avoid having to use Transport spells to move troops). People have to know
    moderation. And the DM can, in the final event, enforce moderation. But,
    IMO, players should show restraint in abusing Lt actions, AND other rules
    as well.
    >
    > I think that the idea of Lieutenant was introduced to have a means of
    doing
    > actions which would otherwise be impossible. For example, in this way the
    > simple fighter regent can have a wizard lieutenant who can cast spells,
    etc.
    > I don't think lieutenants were invented to hire by the tens, then let
    them
    > all train their hitpoints and proficiencies up to the max. If any player
    of
    > mine tried to take advantage of this I would certainly yank him back.
    > Everybody has to make his own houserules ofcourse, but I would advice a
    bit
    > of restraint. The lieutenant is there to make things possible which
    > otherwise wouldn't be, not to exploit.
    >
    > Just my 20GB, Jan Arnoldus
    >
    >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
    line
    > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

  8. #18
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    Lieutenants

    Eric Dunn wrote:

    >
    > So, when it shakes down, unblooded get NO domain actions, and Scions and
    > LT's get one.

    Hmmm ... unblooded people can and do become lieutenants. Considering
    the above, and other discussions about re: regents/regency points, would
    unblooded lieutenants be incapable of performing domain/realm actions in
    their capacity as active louies? Or, IMH, am I missing an important
    distinction?

    Darren

  9. #19
    Jim Cooper
    Guest

    Lieutenants

    James Ruhland wrote:
    > <
    > IMO the below is sounding more and more correct (Orthodox)
    ><
    > Ok, agreed with what follows, as stated. But the Q. pertained to how many
    > *Character* actions these blighters (LTs and unblooded/Scions) get per turn
    > (total).
    > >

    Three.

    Darren

  10. #20
    lialos@crosslink.ne
    Guest

    Lieutenants

    James Ruhland wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > IMHO:
    > >
    > > Anyone who is not a regent gets one action a domain turn.
    > >
    > Hmmmmn. . .that doesn't sound right. You mean unblooded and Scion
    > (non-Regent PCs even) only get one action per turn?

    Yes, that is exactly correct[I think]. To "get on the board" you do a
    "Create Holding" action, and from then on 3 actions.

    Tripp

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