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Thread: PC Awnsheilen

  1. #1
    Robin Cantin
    Guest

    PC Awnsheilen

    From Bondman:
    >Does anyone have any ideas on PC's becoming awnsheilien? (...)
    (clip)

    Just one thought on this: it seems to me a would-be abobination shouldn't
    choose his form. I like to think of it as similar to the way the dark
    powers of Ravenloft work: the new form represents the worst traits of the
    characters, sometimes plainly exposed for everyone to see and fear. If
    abobinations could choose their form, I'm pretty sure a lot of them
    wouldn't look as they do.

    So if you really want to allow a PC to become an abobination, perhaps you
    coud let him go ahead, then realize it isn't going on as planned.
    Continuying with my Ravenloft comparison, he might also develop weaknesses,
    like being unable to ever say the truth, or be powerless to harm someone
    truly innocent. If your player asks why the others abobinations aren't
    subject to these curses, one can answer they are, but understandably
    conceal them very carefully. In fact, the rumors of the Gorgon's power
    being linked to his citadel might be just one such curse.

    I think this method could provide for better role-playing opportunity than
    just allowing your player to become the maniac invincible super-killer he
    wants his character to become. Once the transformation has begun and he
    realizes the price he has to pay for power, he might want to go back;
    finding a way to reverse the process would make for an interesting quest.

    Robin


    Webmaster of the Direct Democracy Pages
    http://www.oricom.ca/~rcantin/AIntro.html
    Les Pages Democratie Directe
    http://www.oricom.ca/~rcantin/Introduction.html

  2. #2
    Bond007
    Guest

    PC Awnsheilen

    - ----------
    > From: James H. Jenkins
    > To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    > Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - PC Awnsheilen
    > Date: Saturday, August 02, 1997 8:13 AM
    >
    > I really feel that this should be disallowed.
    >
    > But, if you must, then do it like in Star Wars.
    >
    > It seems to me that the benefit that the PC will get is semi-ultimate
    > power, with (almost) no penalty.
    >
    > If it was so cool to be a bad guy, everyone would do it, there would be
    > no reason to have police, etc, as everyone would be evil.
    >
    > Anyway, the idea here is to make the character "Pay the Price" for being
    > so evil. "Greyhawk Advwentures" hardback book has some cool rules for
    > evil PC's, where every time they commit an evil act/ go up a level ,
    > something bad happens: Tongue falls off, hair white, blind in one eye,
    > hunchback, etc. This could be extended to loss of sex drive, genital
    > shriveling, etc.
    >
    > Make it just like Darth Vader. Looks really cool to be 6'6" with
    > power gloves, and a big cape, but the price is paid down the road, in no
    > friends, everyone out to get you, and you are the servant of dark
    > forces, so that you end up killing your family (because they are a
    > threat to you.)
    >
    > Then, realize that any game with this guy as a major character will
    > focus on the despicable deeds that he does, and the efforts of Good to
    > stop him. This might be fun for a while, until you translate the game
    > into
    > real-world terms, and realize that this character has slaughtered
    > innocents, burnt down whole towns, etc.
    >
    > If this type of activity turns on this player, he needs to quit BR, and
    > play something like CYBERPUNK 2020, or some other equally mindlessly
    > violent game.
    >
    > Also, there is now out (I SWEAR TO GOD) a game called "Chainsaw Slasher"
    > where you get to play a guy that hacks up high school girls, and
    > pregnant women. Perhaps this is more the speed of this type of player.
    >
    > Just from my experience, anyone that wants to play evil PC's usually has
    > latent tendencies toward anti-social behavior, and always ends up
    > wrecking the game, the excuse being "Come on, chill out guys, I was just
    > PLAYING MY CHARACTER."
    >
    > For those that want to play characters that are self-serving,
    > destructive, and cruel, I must ask: "Is this FUN?!?!?"
    >
    > If so, why?
    >
    > I have known a fe people that played evil PCs in other peoples games.
    > Invariably, these individuals were often associated with the D&D
    > player that brings on negative publicity. I'm sure that many reading
    > this have felt the wrath of those that run into the typical:
    > "OH< you play THAT GAME..."
    >
    > Stuff like that gets on my nerves, because I'm being judged by the
    > actions of the few.
    >
    > Or, Alternatively:
    > Let the guy roll up an awnsheghlin. Then kill him.
    > Or, have ANOTHER awns. Kill him, and use tighmaevril to do it.
    > There is no honor among awnshegh.
    >
    > - James H. Jenkins
    >
    Ummm, yeah...whatever....

    Alli I was askin for was tips on making awnshelienghs, not create a serial
    killer. Besides, the player is my best friend and is not a social
    psycopath. Besides, his character is not "evil" in the first place. He
    happens to be an elf that gained the bloodtrait power after raising his
    bloodline. As all of you know, elves despise anyone who cuts trees. This
    character has devoted his entire life to the preservation of his "children"
    and now wishes to use this newly acuired power to protect his sacred trees.
    If BR was full of elves and it used an elven alignment system based on
    their beliefs, he would be lawful good. It's simply a game, that's all we
    treat it as.
    Bondman

  3. #3
    James H. Jenkins
    Guest

    PC Awnsheilen

    I really feel that this should be disallowed.

    But, if you must, then do it like in Star Wars.

    It seems to me that the benefit that the PC will get is semi-ultimate
    power, with (almost) no penalty.

    If it was so cool to be a bad guy, everyone would do it, there would be
    no reason to have police, etc, as everyone would be evil.

    Anyway, the idea here is to make the character "Pay the Price" for being
    so evil. "Greyhawk Advwentures" hardback book has some cool rules for
    evil PC's, where every time they commit an evil act/ go up a level ,
    something bad happens: Tongue falls off, hair white, blind in one eye,
    hunchback, etc. This could be extended to loss of sex drive, genital
    shriveling, etc.

    Make it just like Darth Vader. Looks really cool to be 6'6" with
    power gloves, and a big cape, but the price is paid down the road, in no
    friends, everyone out to get you, and you are the servant of dark
    forces, so that you end up killing your family (because they are a
    threat to you.)

    Then, realize that any game with this guy as a major character will
    focus on the despicable deeds that he does, and the efforts of Good to
    stop him. This might be fun for a while, until you translate the game
    into
    real-world terms, and realize that this character has slaughtered
    innocents, burnt down whole towns, etc.

    If this type of activity turns on this player, he needs to quit BR, and
    play something like CYBERPUNK 2020, or some other equally mindlessly
    violent game.

    Also, there is now out (I SWEAR TO GOD) a game called "Chainsaw Slasher"
    where you get to play a guy that hacks up high school girls, and
    pregnant women. Perhaps this is more the speed of this type of player.

    Just from my experience, anyone that wants to play evil PC's usually has
    latent tendencies toward anti-social behavior, and always ends up
    wrecking the game, the excuse being "Come on, chill out guys, I was just
    PLAYING MY CHARACTER."

    For those that want to play characters that are self-serving,
    destructive, and cruel, I must ask: "Is this FUN?!?!?"

    If so, why?

    I have known a fe people that played evil PCs in other peoples games.
    Invariably, these individuals were often associated with the D&D
    player that brings on negative publicity. I'm sure that many reading
    this have felt the wrath of those that run into the typical:
    "OH< you play THAT GAME..."

    Stuff like that gets on my nerves, because I'm being judged by the
    actions of the few.

    Or, Alternatively:
    Let the guy roll up an awnsheghlin. Then kill him.
    Or, have ANOTHER awns. Kill him, and use tighmaevril to do it.
    There is no honor among awnshegh.

    - - James H. Jenkins

  4. #4
    Frederic Lavallee
    Guest

    PC Awnsheilen

    James H. Jenkins wrote:
    >
    > I really feel that this should be disallowed.
    >
    > But, if you must, then do it like in Star Wars.
    >
    > It seems to me that the benefit that the PC will get is semi-ultimate
    > power, with (almost) no penalty.
    >
    > If it was so cool to be a bad guy, everyone would do it, there would be
    > no reason to have police, etc, as everyone would be evil.
    >
    > Anyway, the idea here is to make the character "Pay the Price" for being
    > so evil. "Greyhawk Advwentures" hardback book has some cool rules for
    > evil PC's, where every time they commit an evil act/ go up a level ,
    > something bad happens: Tongue falls off, hair white, blind in one eye,
    > hunchback, etc. This could be extended to loss of sex drive, genital
    > shriveling, etc.
    >
    > Make it just like Darth Vader. Looks really cool to be 6'6" with
    > power gloves, and a big cape, but the price is paid down the road, in no
    > friends, everyone out to get you, and you are the servant of dark
    > forces, so that you end up killing your family (because they are a
    > threat to you.)
    >
    > Then, realize that any game with this guy as a major character will
    > focus on the despicable deeds that he does, and the efforts of Good to
    > stop him. This might be fun for a while, until you translate the game
    > into
    > real-world terms, and realize that this character has slaughtered
    > innocents, burnt down whole towns, etc.
    >
    > If this type of activity turns on this player, he needs to quit BR, and
    > play something like CYBERPUNK 2020, or some other equally mindlessly
    > violent game.
    >
    > Also, there is now out (I SWEAR TO GOD) a game called "Chainsaw Slasher"
    > where you get to play a guy that hacks up high school girls, and
    > pregnant women. Perhaps this is more the speed of this type of player.
    >
    > Just from my experience, anyone that wants to play evil PC's usually has
    > latent tendencies toward anti-social behavior, and always ends up
    > wrecking the game, the excuse being "Come on, chill out guys, I was just
    > PLAYING MY CHARACTER."
    >
    > For those that want to play characters that are self-serving,
    > destructive, and cruel, I must ask: "Is this FUN?!?!?"
    >
    > If so, why?
    >
    > I have known a fe people that played evil PCs in other peoples games.
    > Invariably, these individuals were often associated with the D&D
    > player that brings on negative publicity. I'm sure that many reading
    > this have felt the wrath of those that run into the typical:
    > "OH< you play THAT GAME..."
    >
    > Stuff like that gets on my nerves, because I'm being judged by the
    > actions of the few.
    >
    > Or, Alternatively:
    > Let the guy roll up an awnsheghlin. Then kill him.
    > Or, have ANOTHER awns. Kill him, and use tighmaevril to do it.
    > There is no honor among awnshegh.
    >
    > - James H. Jenkins
    >
    For some time now, i had an evil player in my group. But, he is not the
    mindless brute that you speak of (he's more a schemer). He goes pretty
    well with the rest of the group^because he knows if he goes too far, the
    group will probably kill him. So, he plots behind their backs, steals
    when they're not looking and made alliances with other shady guys. For
    him, the party is a way to gain power (and XPs) so he uses them. Do they
    know it? They don't (at least in the game).
    The Maker of Kings

    P.S. I'm think only in punishment that an evil guy loses his tongue or
    hairs or whatever.

  5. #5
    chrys murphy
    Guest

    PC Awnsheilen

    Bond007 wrote:
    >
    > ----------
    > > From: James H. Jenkins
    > > To: birthright@MPGN.COM
    > > Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - PC Awnsheilen
    > > Date: Saturday, August 02, 1997 8:13 AM
    > >
    > > I really feel that this should be disallowed.
    > >
    > > But, if you must, then do it like in Star Wars.
    > >
    > > It seems to me that the benefit that the PC will get is semi-ultimate
    > > power, with (almost) no penalty.
    > >
    > > If it was so cool to be a bad guy, everyone would do it, there would be
    > > no reason to have police, etc, as everyone would be evil.
    > >
    > > Anyway, the idea here is to make the character "Pay the Price" for being
    > > so evil. "Greyhawk Advwentures" hardback book has some cool rules for
    > > evil PC's, where every time they commit an evil act/ go up a level ,
    > > something bad happens: Tongue falls off, hair white, blind in one eye,
    > > hunchback, etc. This could be extended to loss of sex drive, genital
    > > shriveling, etc.
    > >
    > > Make it just like Darth Vader. Looks really cool to be 6'6" with
    > > power gloves, and a big cape, but the price is paid down the road, in no
    > > friends, everyone out to get you, and you are the servant of dark
    > > forces, so that you end up killing your family (because they are a
    > > threat to you.)
    > >
    > > Then, realize that any game with this guy as a major character will
    > > focus on the despicable deeds that he does, and the efforts of Good to
    > > stop him. This might be fun for a while, until you translate the game
    > > into
    > > real-world terms, and realize that this character has slaughtered
    > > innocents, burnt down whole towns, etc.
    > >
    > > If this type of activity turns on this player, he needs to quit BR, and
    > > play something like CYBERPUNK 2020, or some other equally mindlessly
    > > violent game.
    > >
    > > Also, there is now out (I SWEAR TO GOD) a game called "Chainsaw Slasher"
    > > where you get to play a guy that hacks up high school girls, and
    > > pregnant women. Perhaps this is more the speed of this type of player.
    > >
    > > Just from my experience, anyone that wants to play evil PC's usually has
    > > latent tendencies toward anti-social behavior, and always ends up
    > > wrecking the game, the excuse being "Come on, chill out guys, I was just
    > > PLAYING MY CHARACTER."
    > >
    > > For those that want to play characters that are self-serving,
    > > destructive, and cruel, I must ask: "Is this FUN?!?!?"
    > >
    > > If so, why?
    > >
    > > I have known a fe people that played evil PCs in other peoples games.
    > > Invariably, these individuals were often associated with the D&D
    > > player that brings on negative publicity. I'm sure that many reading
    > > this have felt the wrath of those that run into the typical:
    > > "OH< you play THAT GAME..."
    > >
    > > Stuff like that gets on my nerves, because I'm being judged by the
    > > actions of the few.
    > >
    > > Or, Alternatively:
    > > Let the guy roll up an awnsheghlin. Then kill him.
    > > Or, have ANOTHER awns. Kill him, and use tighmaevril to do it.
    > > There is no honor among awnshegh.
    > >
    > > - James H. Jenkins
    > >
    > Ummm, yeah...whatever....
    >
    > Alli I was askin for was tips on making awnshelienghs, not create a serial
    > killer. Besides, the player is my best friend and is not a social
    > psycopath. Besides, his character is not "evil" in the first place. He
    > happens to be an elf that gained the bloodtrait power after raising his
    > bloodline. As all of you know, elves despise anyone who cuts trees. This
    > character has devoted his entire life to the preservation of his "children"
    > and now wishes to use this newly acuired power to protect his sacred trees.
    > If BR was full of elves and it used an elven alignment system based on
    > their beliefs, he would be lawful good. It's simply a game, that's all we
    > treat it as.
    > Bondman
    >
    > ************************************************** *************************
    > > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    Bond007

    In that case have a look at the response I just posted, It may help your
    friend and yourself to understand how to play the transformation.

  6. #6
    Michael Gerard Kothakota
    Guest

    PC Awnsheilen

    On Aug 2, 5:13am, James H. Jenkins wrote:
    > Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - PC Awnsheilen
    > I really feel that this should be disallowed.
    I don't understand why you feel it should be disallowed. Their have always
    been evil characters in campaigns. I've played one or two on occasion, just as
    I've played a lawful good paladin one time. Being evil doesn't necessarily
    mean that the character must be diabolical (Chaotic Evil, that's another
    story). A lot of real life people are "evil" in the AD&D sense. People who
    are selfish, who do things to advance themselves at the expense of others, are
    considered "evil". People who steal and lie for themselves are "evil". Guys
    who dog girls by dating five at a time could be considered evil. It's all in
    how people look at it.

    > It seems to me that the benefit that the PC will get is semi-ultimate
    > power, with (almost) no penalty.
    There are a lot of penalties associated with being an awnsheghlien. People may
    leave your kingdom simply because you are an awnsheghlien. You become the
    object of a continent-wide hunt. Your form is twisted into something
    grotesque. And remember, that everybody has weaknesses, especially those with
    great amounts of power.
    > If it was so cool to be a bad guy, everyone would do it, there would be
    > no reason to have police, etc, as everyone would be evil.
    Whose to say police aren't evil? Sometimes the police are the bad guys. Have
    you ever got pulled over for a minor traffic violation (inspection sticker
    expired) and then just two blocks down the road, you hear gunshots, and the
    police finish writing your ticket? Well, I have. Most people want to be good,
    but just never achieve it. I would say the majority of people end up being
    something along the lines of Lawful Neutral. And yeah, sometimes it is cool to
    be the bad guy, just so you can be a regular real world person.
    >
    > Make it just like Darth Vader. Looks really cool to be 6'6" with
    > power gloves, and a big cape, but the price is paid down the road, in no
    > friends, everyone out to get you, and you are the servant of dark
    > forces, so that you end up killing your family (because they are a
    > threat to you.)
    Remember, Darth Vader was redeemed at the end as Anakin Skywalker.
    > Then, realize that any game with this guy as a major character will
    > focus on the despicable deeds that he does, and the efforts of Good to
    > stop him. This might be fun for a while, until you translate the game
    > into
    > real-world terms, and realize that this character has slaughtered
    > innocents, burnt down whole towns, etc.
    What do you think all of the Romans did? Or Richard the Lionhearted? William
    the Conqueror? William Wallace, main character of Braveheart? Kings of
    England, the Moors, all of these slaughtered innocents. The most prime example
    I can think of is Sherman during the American Civil War. "War is hell" he
    said. But at the same time burning a trail through the south that left
    thousands destitute and hungry. Or Grant "the Butcher" as his own Yankee
    soldiers would call him for throwing wave after wave of his own blue-coated
    soldiers against the Confederate troops. Or even General Robert E. Lee, a
    gentleman, scholar and chivalrous man who once ordered the deaths of thirty
    Yankee soldiers. No, I don't think this is a good argument.
    > If this type of activity turns on this player, he needs to quit BR, and
    > play something like CYBERPUNK 2020, or some other equally mindlessly
    > violent game.
    First of all, mindless violence is the province of US Marines. A lot of evil
    people are simply plotters, who despise the waste that mass destruction brings,
    while "good" characters use war to "cleanse the realm of evil", meanwhile
    destroying crops, homesteads and cities.
    > Also, there is now out (I SWEAR TO GOD) a game called "Chainsaw Slasher"
    > where you get to play a guy that hacks up high school girls, and
    > pregnant women. Perhaps this is more the speed of this type of player.
    I believe you, and I'm guessing the majority of AD&D players would find this
    type of play abhorrent.
    > Just from my experience, anyone that wants to play evil PC's usually has
    > latent tendencies toward anti-social behavior, and always ends up
    > wrecking the game, the excuse being "Come on, chill out guys, I was just
    > PLAYING MY CHARACTER."
    Not true, I was quite the popular guy in high school, and in college ROTC. I'm
    also not the nicest guy in the world. And evil characters should never "wreck
    the game" because the DM has control over it.
    > For those that want to play characters that are self-serving,
    > destructive, and cruel, I must ask: "Is this FUN?!?!?"
    Quite fun. This is a way to get all of those negative emotions (I know, I know
    there ARE no negative emotions).

    > I have known a fe people that played evil PCs in other peoples games.
    > Invariably, these individuals were often associated with the D&D
    > player that brings on negative publicity. I'm sure that many reading
    > this have felt the wrath of those that run into the typical:
    > "OH< you play THAT GAME...
    Actually, yes I have. But those are people who have never been exposed to
    reading for pure pleasure. I started AD&D by reading novels. It's very cool
    to play these characters, but no one should want to play one in real life.

    > Stuff like that gets on my nerves, because I'm being judged by the
    > actions of the few.
    Just think about who you're being judged by first. And then ask yourself:
    what right do they have to judge me? Absolutely none. MOst of these peo
    > Or, Alternatively:
    > Let the guy roll up an awnsheghlin. Then kill him.
    > Or, have ANOTHER awns. Kill him, and use tighmaevril to do it.
    > There is no honor among awnshegh.
    >
    > - James H. Jenkins
    > ************************************************** *************************
    > > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
    >-- End of excerpt from James H. Jenkins

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