Deck of Many Things

**Endrin Helrick** · 02-02-2004, 07:42 PM

For those who use the always fun and interesting deck how do you put limits on the wish card? this is some of my limits.
1. Can not wish for a character level or ability score.
2. Can not wish for experience.
3. Can not wish for no more than a million gold peices.

Is there any that you can not wish for in your house rules???

This is a list of that get used alot in our games.
All evil/good removed from the deck.
upto 10 magic items of there choice
beable to cast certain healing spells on self from 1-3 times per day
More damage on spells

Now comes one i have a question on how you would handle.
I wish i was twice as strong for a fighter. This dwarf already had a 22 natural STR. Would you allow him to have the STR of 44 or just double his ability modifier. Now with this any character could get to strong. think of a wizzard have a 20 INT and getting a 40 INT. to many spells even if he was only 5th level.

My all time fav wish that i came up with was:
Any weapon that i use is VORPAL till i stop using the weapon.

What is yours??????

**Birthright-L** · 02-02-2004, 10:00 PM

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<DIV></DIV>>Endrin Helrick wrote:

<DIV></DIV>> For those who use the always fun and interesting deck how do you put limits on the wish card? this is some of my limits.1. Can not wish for a character level or ability score.2. Can not wish for experience.3. Can not wish for no more than a million gold peices.Is there any that you can not wish for in your house rules???This is a list of that get used alot in our games.All evil/good removed from the deck.upto 10 magic items of there choicebeable to cast certain healing spells on self from 1-3 times per dayMore damage on spells Now comes one i have a question on how you would handle.I wish i was twice as strong for a fighter. This dwarf already had a 22 natural STR. Would you allow him to have the STR of 44 or just double his ability modifier. Now with this any character could get to strong. think of a wizzard have a 20 INT and getting a 40 INT. to many spells even if he was only 5th level.My all time fav wish that i came up with was:Any weapon that i use is VORPAL till i st

<DIV></DIV>>op using the weapon.What is yours??????

<DIV></DIV>>

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<DIV>A long time I read the Wizard`s Handbook, and there is a little part dedicated to the 9th level wish spell. Regarding ability scores, 1 wish can increase only 1 point if the ability is under 16; if it`s higher than 16, you need 10 wishes to increase 1 point and never beyond 25.</DIV>

<DIV>But the interesting thing was that thw wish spell is not all powerful,and the DM is able to interpret the wish as he sees fit. For example, if a character wishes to be "twice as strong as a fighter", he doesn`t for how long, or when. If he asks for a million gp, they may belong toa rival nobleman. Even so, wish can be used to mimic any other spell.</DIV>

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<DIV>Angueyra</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Help STOP spam with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*</html>

**irdeggman** · 02-02-2004, 10:16 PM

Hey Monte Hall - I wish I was in your campaign.

I agree with Angueyra, except that I seem to recall that for every category of exceptional strength required a separate wish. That is the % in the 18 range. THis is for 2nd ed only.

If you use the 3.5 version the wish spell's potential effects are even more clearly defined. An ability score can be increased by +1 inherent bonus (note that there is a limit of +5 to inherent bonuses).

**bulletmagnet** · 02-02-2004, 10:39 PM

personally i reward well stated wishes as they are. However if someone wished to be twice as strong.I would be devious and wish a clone of the person into existence and let the pieces fall where they may.Wishes are supposed to be carefully made since yoour deallin with massive power and we all know power corrupts.

**irdeggman** · 02-03-2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by bulletmagnet@Feb 2 2004, 05:39 PM
personally i reward well stated wishes as they are. However if someone wished to be twice as strong.I would be devious and wish a clone of the person into existence and let the pieces fall where they may.Wishes are supposed to be carefully made since yoour deallin with massive power and we all know power corrupts.

Are you playing 2nd or 3/3.5 rules? It matters in ejudicating a wish.

3/3.5 is very specific on what a wish can accomplish - this was part of WotC evening the field concerning all things and trying to make life easier for the DM. In 2nd ed wishes were one of the most challenging thing for a DM to ejudicate.

**bulletmagnet** · 02-03-2004, 12:19 PM

I dont use "rules". I use guidlines and yes 3.5 is very specific about what can be done.However, a poorly stated wish is still a poorly stated wish and should be delt with accordingly no matter what version your using.Since Wish is being used in a low magic seting it makes it more imperitive that the Dm "crack down" on the super power feel to 3rd edition in order to save the "feel" of Cerila.

**irdeggman** · 02-03-2004, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by bulletmagnet@Feb 3 2004, 07:19 AM
I dont use "rules". I use guidlines and yes 3.5 is very specific about what can be done.However, a poorly stated wish is still a poorly stated wish and should be delt with accordingly no matter what version your using.Since Wish is being used in a low magic seting it makes it more imperitive that the Dm "crack down" on the super power feel to 3rd edition in order to save the "feel" of Cerila.

I wasn't questioning the use of the carefully worded wish concept. I was only going along the lines of the "double my strength" type of wish. In 3/3.5 this can't even be asked for and player's have access to the PHB to check on these types of things.

All player's should know that there is a maximum of +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (hence you can't double a strength score, unless it starts out as 5 or lower - yeah right like that is going to happen). They should also know the limits of a wish (as specified in the PHB) just as a spellcaster would know what a spell does before casting it. So if dwarf with a 22 strength asked to 'double' his strength - the carefullyworded spell (functioning within the limits of the spell description) would, IMO, have the dwarf's strength end up being 10 (cut back to 5 so that it could be doubled).

Now, if the player's choose to 'ignore' the restrictions of the spell or try to get it to accomplish something it doesn't - well that is where the DM 'enforcing limits' like you are talking about comes into play. Now it sounds like the players are pushing the limits of a wish consistently - the problem with using 'guideline' instead of rules, once you allow something the door is now opened. They can't get 10 magic items of their choice either per the spell - there is a gp limit on the magic item given.

In 2nd ed, without checking my source books - I think that a Deck of Many things was not on the 'allowed' list of magic items for the setting. Again, I haven't checked my books so I could be wrong on this one.

**bulletmagnet** · 02-03-2004, 02:59 PM

Agreed.Good points made.My group stopped playing birthright when the mage decided to become a magic item factory.This was of course early before the conversions were done.Personaly i think 3.0 was made with power gaming in mind.Almost the feel of forgotten relms.If your running Bright it was considered low magic even back in 2nd edition.So Dm's that allow a deck in their games are just asking for trouble anyway.Bright has alot in common with Middle earth as far as magic goes.You dont see it but rarely but when you do its awesome.Now if players had access to a wish in lord of the rings that would end the movie quick noq wouldny it?Remember always what every works for your own group works.This is just a old school opinion of mine.

**Seeker164** · 02-04-2004, 01:06 AM

These have all been great suggestions on how to deal with how wish is used by characters, and their limits.

To add my point of view to how to handle this regarding the deck of many things a few things need to be considered.

Since the Deck is an artifact (minor i belive, books arent accessible ATM) you have to consider who made it, more importantly what was that persons good/evil diposition. If an evil being of power enough to create this item released it to the wolrd it would be for obviously evil intentions meaning wishes would be interpreted as harshly as possible. A whish for a million gold would burry the wisher and many of those around them, more then likely killing them under thier wieght, or purhaps inbedding the wisher in a Vein of ore that comprises that amount..... I think you get the point, and can adapt it for good/neutral/chaotic/lawful as well.

also another thing to consider is the power of the deck.... It is a magic item and as such different creations vary in strength depending on the creator. So some wishes will be just outside of the decks power to complete some cards effects would have to be changed to balance out the deck but this is an easy way to set handles on what a player can wish for.

**Ariadne** · 02-04-2004, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Endrin Helrick@Feb 2 2004, 08:42 PM
Now comes one i have a question on how you would handle.
I wish i was twice as strong for a fighter. This dwarf already had a 22 natural STR. Would you allow him to have the STR of 44 or just double his ability modifier. Now with this any character could get to strong. think of a wizzard have a 20 INT and getting a 40 INT. to many spells even if he was only 5th level.

If I remember right there is a rule that you can enhance your ability scores with a wish only by 5 points (and 1 point per wish). So doubling his Str or Int score is simply impossible.
Naturally there are other methods like a "belt of giant strength +6" or even "belt of epic giant strength +12" (the don't use permant magical items or make it at least as difficult as possible argument is of topic here). But even if you use every point you get during your adventures to boost str/ int, its hard to get a score above 30 (including all possible enhancements apart from shapechanging into a giant or something).

The absolute max. for the dwarf at level 24 is str 45 (Ability +6 [starting at 22], 5 wishes á 1 point, belt of epic giant strength +12) and there is nearly NO chance to get all these things, even if level 30! Apart from that, if the level if the fighter was 8 (str 22 for first level is pretty high, even for a dwarf) the str score can't be above 43...

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