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Thread: Anuirean Heraldry
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02-02-2004, 11:00 PM #11
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>
> > Another thing that should be settled first off is the actual shades of
> colours; for example, burgundy and fuchsia are both shades of purple,
> but...
>
I`d like to stick to heraldic glossary, too, if only I could remember all those French names for colors :(NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.
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02-03-2004, 05:06 AM #12
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Originally posted by Birthright-L@Feb 2 2004, 04:00 PM
Why not simply accept the ones from PS and novels and move on to the ones that were never officially described?
Also we run into the fact that alot of heraldry 'grows' over time, as second sons, 3rd sons and other sons develop into their own branches of the family, families intermarry, alliances are formed, allianced break down, etc. Because of this, we need to start at the beginning, nail down the 12 original Arms and evolve them from there."It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."
- R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long
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02-03-2004, 05:11 AM #13
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Originally posted by Birthright-L@Feb 2 2004, 04:00 PM
I`d like to stick to heraldic glossary, too, if only I could remember all those French names for colors
Red - gules
Green - vert
Blue - azure
Purple - purpure
Black - sable
Metals:
White - argent
Yellow - Or*
* the word Or is always capitalized to avoid confusion with the preposition 'or'
There are also a series of field treatmetns called Furs, but without graphics to show people it makes it very difficult to describe them."It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."
- R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long
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02-03-2004, 11:27 AM #14
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Wow! Ambitious...I like that.
Many of you will think that it would be easier to just go ahead and design the Arms as they stand today and call it done, but that would be ignoring the evolution of 1500 years that these arms would undergo, the interrelations between them, and more importantly give us some starting points for the nations and houses that split away from them.
Anyway, enough naysaying. A question:
How strict are the colours? With only 5 colours and 2 "metals", do colours like gold and orange (for example) become impossible or can they be classed as types of yellow?
CM.
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02-03-2004, 02:50 PM #15
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> Mostly because the heraldry on the PS covers is nothing more than `pretty
> artwork`. These blazons are muddled, stylized and have no identifiability
> from a distance. With most of them, the colour combination has poor
> contrast. Remember, the point of heraldry is to be able to tell who that
> armoured fellow charging at you across the field is.
Please correct me if I`m wrong, but I think that identification in war is not the only purpose of heraldic emblems. Major realms, like Avanil, Boeruine, Ghoere, etc, which are expected to go to war or send the most soldiers to the Imperial army should have blazons which are simple and identifiable from the distance. Realms ruled by minor families, like Ilien, Medoere, Tuornen, etc, would prefer having stylish blazons which would often be overcrowded with symbols. This number of symbols also sounds logical. Major bloodlines try to keep their line intact, so symbols of other houses with very rarely, if ever, be added to the blazon. On the other hand, minor families will try to form marriage-based alliances with as many other families as possible to gain their support. Thus, they would have to add new symbols to their blazon and make it a little overcrowded like the blazon of Tuornen, for example.
>
> Also we run into the fact that alot of heraldry `grows` over time, as
> second sons, 3rd sons and other sons develop into their own branches of
> the family, families intermarry, alliances are formed, allianced break
> down, etc. Because of this, we need to start at the beginning, nail down
> the 12 original Arms and evolve them from there.
>
I totally agree about this.NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.
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02-03-2004, 02:50 PM #16
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>
> How strict are the colours? With only 5 colours and 2 "metals",
> do colours like gold and orange (for example) become impossible or can
> they be classed as types of yellow?
>
Or is gold, not real yellow. I`ve never seen a blazon with real yellow, so I don`t think it was used much. Same for orange. I`m not an expert on heraldry, but I think French names are used because those are special shades of colors, not the ones like in MS Paint`s basic palette.NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.
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02-04-2004, 03:02 AM #17
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Yes, Or is technically gold, but unless it was a really reddish orange, we would call it Or. Mind you, the closer your colour is to the ideal, the more contrast you will have.
"It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."
- R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long
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02-05-2004, 02:06 AM #18
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Actually, from english heraldry, we also get Sanguine and Orange, as well as the metal Fer. There are also Carnation (flesh) and, although I doubt it came before the late 15th century, proper or au naturel, basically in real life colours.
Actually, minor families would still have arms less exaggerated than those on the PS covers, moreso if sovereign. The arms of the Doges of Venice are generally simpler than the great arms of the Most Serene republic. And complicated arms are not generally so much due to the individual pictures than due to the accumulation of individual arms (the Two Sicilies, from 1716, had 7 combined coats of arms for iheir great arms), as well as being generally rather late.
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09-10-2004, 12:47 PM #19
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