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  1. #1
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    Greetings.

    I have a pet project to develop the Arms of the various nations of Anuire, and would like to get some discussions started on the history of Anuire, the possible colours and charges of the 12 tribes of the Andu, a determionation of which of the 12 Ducal Houses are direct decendants of these tribes, which ones were appointed by Emperors past, etc...

    Many of you will think that it would be easier to just go ahead and design the Arms as they stand today and call it done, but that would be ignoring the evolution of 1500 years that these arms would undergo, the interrelations between them, and more importantly give us some starting points for the nations and houses that split away from them.

    THE IMPERIAL CITY
    Assuming that the Imperial Arms would be virtually unchanged from the first Roeles, we need to ask "Who were they?" If Roele, Rasene and Haelyn were the sons of the King of the premier Andu tribe, then, should their arms not reflect this? Since the totem animal of Andurias was a lion, that would be a logical charge to use. The colour red (from accounts I have read in some source I can't fully remember) seems to be associated with nobility, so let's use this as a field colour. In heraldic lingo, one proposed set of Arms fot eh Imperial City would be:
    Gules, a lion's head caboshed affronty Or.
    In plainspeak, we have a red field, and a golden lion's head staring out at the viewer with the mane surrounding the face, tufts of hair down where the neck would normally be depicted.

    Any thoughts?
    "It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."

    - R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long

  2. #2
    Site Moderator Fearless_Leader's Avatar
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    I've always seen the Roele symbol being the double-headed eagle that is often associated with imperial houses (Russia and Austria for example). In this case, I believe that the Roele symbol would be a red double-headed eagle on a white background, as seen on the cover of the boxed set (which is supposed to depict Michael Roele's army at the final battle of the War of Succession, where he is seen battling goblins hired by the Archduke of Boeruine).

  3. #3
    Kzintosh
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    :blink: Wow! Ambitious...I like that. Well, the Anuireans would certainly be the ones to develop heraldry, given their martial predilictions. I'm not well-versed in the psuedo-history of Anuire to help much in heraldry (at least, I don't recall who the 12 tribes were...at least not THESE 12 tribes ). But I'd be happy to comment. I assume that the Roele crest would develop to show a royal crown...? However, as I recall, the heraldic device shown on the maps (as well as the "crown") is a double-headed eagle. I'm assuming that would be the Roele heraldic device.

  4. #4
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    My main problem with using a lion for Imperial charges is that we know from

    the map that the Imperial charge is an eagle. Perhaps we eagles for

    secular/landed empire and lions for the temples.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  5. #5
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Here are some of my observations on Anuirean Heraldry.



    What we see in the art:

    Roesone: a black hart on a gold field (head for the ruler, whole body for

    her court)

    Ilien: a gold ship on a blue field

    Boeruine: a purple field with two gold lions facing. I have problems with

    this as Boeruine`s personal or realm blazon. I think this arrangement

    refers to an office (Marshal of the Empire?) that Boeruine claims as part of

    his bid for the Iron Throne.

    Talinie: a blue bear on a white field

    Avanil: Gold double eagle on a red field

    Ghoere: someone is wearing a gold griffon or dragon on a red field

    Mhoried: a quartered blazon, white scales on a blue field, 1st and 4th. A

    blue (?) sword on a white field, 2nd and 3rd. Again I have a problem. I

    think this refers to a office the Mhor holds in some religious order. I

    think the scales refer to the justice of Haelyn and the sword to Cuiraecen

    refering to Haelyn`s Aegis and the Militant Order. He claims to represent

    both. Otherwise this old ducal figure should have an unquartered blazon.

    Dhoesone: Rulers wear pretty clothes, but sometimes these clothes have

    meaning, especially in color. I suspect that Dhoesone`s colors are gold and

    green. They probabaly have been since the realm was Rjurik.

    Tharhievel: the Anuireans probabaly represent this realm by a red rose.



    On the map, Anuire is a red double eagle holding a black serpent in its

    claws on a gold field.

    Brecture a gold boat on a blue backround. Those green fish would become

    invisible at a distance.

    Rjurik: two black Wyvern, facing on a red field.



    Looking at the PS`s (a problem I discussed on Jan 4 of this year)

    Medoere is a silver unicorn on a blue field

    forget Ilien in favor of RoE

    Talinie for it in favor of Roe

    Baruk-Azhik black hammer on gold field

    Endier gold sunburst on black field, with a red spider on top

    Tournen white hart on green (same custom as Roesone?)

    Roesone speaking of which, forget it in favor of RoE (and the pictures

    inside)

    Stjordvik gold battle axe on a green field



    For the case of Boeruine, I think Taline is a clue, supported by the obvious

    case of canting which is so tempting here. Boeruine`s charge is a bear.

    Talinie adapted her overlord`s charge. A red bear on gold or vice versa?

    Sometimes red and purple are interchangable, is it a purple bear on gold?

    We`ll need to work this out.



    Let`s see if we can nail down the most reliable blazons before moving to the

    unknowns.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Another thing that should be settled first off is the actual shades of colours; for example, burgundy and fuchsia are both shades of purple, but...

  7. #7
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "RaspK_FOG" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

    Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 5:09 PM





    > Another thing that should be settled first off is the actual shades of

    colours; for example, burgundy and fuchsia are both shades of purple, but...



    I would prefer that there are no shades, just the five colors and two

    metals. Use of the furs is open as far as I am concerned.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  8. #8
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    > :blink: :D Wow&#33; Ambitious...I like that. Well, the Anuireans

    > would certainly be the ones to develop heraldry, given their martial

    > predilictions. I`m not well-versed in the psuedo-history of Anuire to

    > help much in heraldry (at least, I don`t recall who the 12 tribes

    > were...at least not THESE 12 tribes ;) ). But I`d be happy to comment. I

    > assume that the Roele crest would develop to show a royal crown...?

    > However, as I recall, the heraldic device shown on the maps (as well as

    > the "crown") is a double-headed eagle. I`m assuming that would

    > be the Roele heraldic device.



    If you look closely at the Anuire map from Boxed Set(mine is from the computer game but it`s the same thing), you will notice that all crests of the Five Tribes have a crown.
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  9. #9
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    > My main problem with using a lion for Imperial charges is that we know

    > from

    > the map that the Imperial charge is an eagle. Perhaps we eagles for

    > secular/landed empire and lions for the temples.



    Lion is Boeruine, I think, and, yes, eagle is Imperial.
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  10. #10
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    >

    > For the case of Boeruine, I think Taline is a clue, supported by the

    > obvious

    > case of canting which is so tempting here. Boeruine`s charge is a bear.

    > Talinie adapted her overlord`s charge. A red bear on gold or vice versa?

    > Sometimes red and purple are interchangable, is it a purple bear on gold?

    > We`ll need to work this out.

    >

    > Let`s see if we can nail down the most reliable blazons before moving to

    > the

    > unknowns.





    Why not simply accept the ones from PS and novels and move on to the ones that were never officially described?
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

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