Understanding Regency

[Trithemius]

irdeggman:

> Unless something else comes up not based on house-rules to redefine

> these terms then I would say yes those will be the definitions since

> they are brief and descriptive.



This is a curious sentence.

My understanding of what a house-rule is describes it as my personal reasonings

and musings about a subject; my ideas, you could say.



Is this sentence, in effect, asking for my ideas on a subject, provided that

these ideas are not just based on my ideas?



If so, that is plain weird.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Trithemius@Feb 7 2004, 09:20 AM
irdeggman:

> Unless something else comes up not based on house-rules to redefine

> these terms then I would say yes those will be the definitions since

> they are brief and descriptive.



This is a curious sentence.

My understanding of what a house-rule is describes it as my personal reasonings

and musings about a subject; my ideas, you could say.



Is this sentence, in effect, asking for my ideas on a subject, provided that

these ideas are not just based on my ideas?



If so, that is plain weird.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

What I meant was if someone could point out somewhere in the canon (i.e., 2nd ed material) that points out where I am off base or missing something.

[Trithemius]

irdeggman:

> What I meant was if someone could point out somewhere in the canon

> (i.e., 2nd ed material) that points out where I am off base or missing

> something.



Oh. Right.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

[Osprey]

What I meant was if someone could point out somewhere in the canon (i.e., 2nd ed material) that points out where I am off base or missing something.

Well, whaddya' know? Timing is everything. I've just been fleshing out Boeruine for my current BR campaign, and in the Ruins of Empire book it very specifically states that both of Aeric Boeruine's lieutenants are regents in their own right, those being the mage Arlen Innis (source regent of Boeruine) and the guildmaster Arien Borthein (Boeruine Trading Guild).

Other places in RoE talk about Lts. as being either regents, scions, or unblooded.

In my mind, there was a definite assumption that Lts' could be regents, Vassals (in Gary's 'capital V' sense), or just about anything else.

The restriction of Lieutenants isn't on the Lt's personal or domain actions as regents in their own right, it is on their role as "substitute regent." A Lt. can only act in the regent's name (and thus perform a standard Domain Action using their character action w/ all advantages that conveys) once per season.

A regent Lt. would simply have to give up one of their own character actions in order to personally oversee a domain action for their liege. So if Arien Borthein was called on by Aeric Boeruine to perform an Espionage action in Boeruine's service, Borthein would have to relegate that month's guild domain action to his own court or one of his own Lieutenants, if he has one. Meanwhile, Borthein would use his own Character Action and Aeric Boeruine's Domain Action (backed by Aeric's regency) during that month. Aeric Boeruine is free to use his own Character Action during that month either in overseeing a Court Action (like training troops to higher levels), adventuring, or anything else that doesn't require a Domain Action to back it up.

It gets a little confusing, but hey...welcome to feudalism! I think there is no conflict at all, mechanically at least, in having regent lieutenants. The conflict would be in-game, where regent vassals would resent losing their character actions to do the work of their liege instead of personally overseeing their own domains. Which is exactly what the description of Boeruine in RoE suggests.

[Osprey]

Masetians
I've always thought that Masetians were heavily Phoenican more than anything else. Certainly the few references to them suggest a Mediterranean feel with a nautical focus, and since they're strictly the "ancient world" of Birthright, the historical analogy is pretty appropriate. The Phoenicians were unquestionably the "great seafarers" of the ancient world, at least in Europe and Asia Minor (where all of the other Cerilian tribes were modeled from).

If we look outside of that geographical area, however, I wonder about the Polynesians (or whatever is the correct PC term for the Pacific islander peoples as a historic group) as a potential model for a more exotic depiction of the Masetians? Kinda' throws a whole different twist on the issue, though I'm pretty certain it was Phoenicians (and maybe the closely-related early Greeks who succeeded them) that the BR designers had in mind.

Khinasi/Basarji
OK, can these guys be anything else (in "modern" Cerilia) other than a parallel of medieval Muslim Arabs? I mean, what about them doesn't jive with this? Granted, they've got mages sitting in a high status position, but I've always seen that as a fantasy extrapolation of the Arabs' value on education and scholarship (Baghdad being the medieval center of learning and art in Europe and Asia Minor before the Mongols came along...). If the Masetians added their influence to the Khinasi, so too did Phoenecian culture (in all its layers through Egyptian, Persian, Greek, and Roman rulership) heavily influence the Islamic Arabs once they came to dominate the Mediterranean coast in Asia Minor.

Throw into this the fact that the Khinasi's greatest hero is a prophet (El-Arrassi, right?), and the Basarji rename themselves in his honor as Khinasi ("people of El-Arrassi"), and the parallels with Muhammed as the hero of the Muslims is almost overwhelming. In fact, I sometimes wish the BR creators had been a little more creative in coming up with something more original.

I may very well have a few of these facts wrong, as the Khinasi aren't my area of expertise (having never bought BR supplements when they were in print, I have only the original box set materials to go on). But I think I got the main ideas as they were originally presented.

[Osprey]

Brechts
These guys are the real confusing ones as ar as historical models go. Obvious German-based language, and a definite resemblance to the medieval German merchants' leagues which dominated northern European trade in the early-high medieval period. They established many towns in the region (including Scandanavia as well as Germany) for trade purposes, and had a powerful influence on politics too.

However...what gets confusing is that many of their styles of dress, behavior (highly individualistic, adventuresome, roguish), etc. seems to be modeled off of Renaissance Italy. The Italian city-states in the Renaissance had many of the characteristics of Brecht society- great explorers by land and sea (regardless of who they worked for), individualistic, entrepreneurial, and a notoriety for their somewhat flamboyant styles and attitudes. Italian mercenary bands come to mind as great examples here, as do the politics of the region - constant feuding and occasional wars between city-states, important families rising and falling...

OK, so maybe we need to throw in the Portugese, too, as the other Renaissance/Age of Exploration great nation of nautical explorers. A bit of Portugese influence seems quite appropriate for the Brecht, too.

In other words, the Brecht are a real hodge-podge of different cultures blended together - potentially the most non-historical human race in Cerialia!

Vos
Dark Age/ early medieval Slavs, definitely...the Slavs who never got overrun by the Golden Horde (the Adurians don't count, 'cause the Vos migrated to a whole 'nother continent to avoid them). Since the Vos live in such inhospitable and isolated lands, combined with the other humans' stigma against them, means the Vos never really advance in technology because trade and outside contact/sharing is so limited. Combined with their own cultural resistance to outside influence.

On a personal note, though, I think the designers gave the Vos the shaft...if they pursue power and advantage so singlemindedly, wouldn't they be hungry for new technology, magic, or anything else that would give them an advantage over their adversaries and rivals for leadership? Even with limited trade, I just don't see how they'd stay in the Dark Ages forever - there's always the greedy (Brecht and Khinasi) merchants willing to trade anything for a profit. And low-tech areas can offer raw materials and indigenous crafts at a low price (precious and useful metals/ores, precious stones, hides and furs, cured meat, liquors, and art, to name a few).

So I think there's real potential, if you want the Vos to be a threat, for them to rise up from their low-tech shackles and become a real threat to the civilized world (again)!

-Osprey

[Birthright-L]

> >>

> >I`m confused.

> >I think we may be differing in the Arabs we are referring to. I meant

> primarily

> >the pre-Islamic tribesmen of the southern Arabia.



Yeah, I meant Islamic Arabs when comparing Basarji/Khinasi with them.



> >

> >I like my Masetians to be Persian over Egyptian. The only Egyptian feel I

> get

> >from the Masetians is via the Serpent. The problem is, I don`t believe

> either

> >of these historical people were especially nautically inclined. My

> preference

> >then is to assume that the Masetians would be Persians, since the Persian

> >preoccupation with astronomy and astrology would conceivable have some

> use in

> >maritime navigation.



The Egyptians did do a lot of sailing and astronomy for their age, I think. Masetians were the most advanced tribe of the oldest age that is remembered, so it would be logical to compare them with Egytians, especially considering, as you said, the Serpent`s Masetians.



> >

> Especially nautiaclly inclined? As far as I remember most ancient sea

> travles were nothing special nautically as most ships stayed if possible

> in sight of the coast to navigate (remember the game Civilization in

> which the early galley units have a chance to vanish if they are not

> close to land on the end of the turn? ;-)). However that does not mean

> that the early seafaring nations did not travel far and wide. Especially

> the phoenizians were known to travel not only the mediterranian sea but

> also to britannia (was it zinc or tin they bought there I don´t

> remember). I remember to have heard about one early sea travel around

> africa but I can´t remember if it was egyptian or phoenician, they

> brought a gorilla with them.



Since I can`t remember if it was Etruscans or Phoenicians, I think we should agree they were Phoenicians :-)



>

> Something else: The "Rus" that were no slavs that someone mentioned

> earlier have been called "Waräger" in my german history lessons so I did

> not recognize the name immediately.



There are similarities between between the Rus and the Varangians, but they are not the same. The Rus were Slavs who were ruled by Vikings. It was not uncommon in ancient times to have a state in which one nation makes up the nobility, and other the lower class. Scythians and Cimmerians had similar empires, for example. Varangians, however, were Slavs who adopted Viking fighting style and way of life, but kept Slavic religion, although slightly modified. They had no state but roamed the world, often looting and razing on their way. They fought with and against both Slavs and Vikings.

[kgauck]

> Especially the phoenizians were known to travel not only the

> mediterranian sea but also to britannia (was it zinc or tin they bought

> there I don´t remember).



Tin, which was used to make bronze. One theory of the origin of the

dwarves, a technically advanced people who lived under ground and made

marvelous things in Viking lore, is that they heard tell of the Phonecians

who arrived in places like Britain, started mining, had an advanced

technology (compared to the bronze age tribesmen), and could make or had

possession of nifty stuff. Make of it what you will.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[Osprey]

One theory of the origin of the
dwarves, a technically advanced people who lived under ground and made
marvelous things in Viking lore, is that they heard tell of the Phonecians
who arrived in places like Britain, started mining, had an advanced
technology (compared to the bronze age tribesmen), and could make or had
possession of nifty stuff. Make of it what you will.

I've heard stories of Viking raiders and settlers in the Orkneys and elsewhere in Scotlnad referring to the indigenous Picts (so it is believed, anyways, and little enough is known of the Picts&#33 as dwarves - small, dark, hairy people who lived under the earth. Now likely this was just placing already developed folklore onto the strange new peoples they encountered (and dominated).

[irdeggman]

Time to reel this puppy back on topic. The original topic was Understanding Regency.

It has progressed into what are the different cultures and through what is a Lt and vassel.

This is one of the main reasons why it is so hard to find things that have been discussed, especially for newbies - the tremendous tendency to veer off topic (and yes, I am also one of those who go off on tangents).