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  1. #41
    Senior Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    Milos Rasic:

    > Arabs, who have, too, been influenced by Persians, Phoenicians,

    > Egyptians and other less famous nations too numerous to list here.

    > Masetians represent those ancient nations, mostly Egyptians, probably

    > because they are best known.



    I`m confused.

    I think we may be differing in the Arabs we are referring to. I meant primarily

    the pre-Islamic tribesmen of the southern Arabia.



    I like my Masetians to be Persian over Egyptian. The only Egyptian feel I get

    from the Masetians is via the Serpent. The problem is, I don`t believe either

    of these historical people were especially nautically inclined. My preference

    then is to assume that the Masetians would be Persians, since the Persian

    preoccupation with astronomy and astrology would conceivable have some use in

    maritime navigation.



    > I have no idea what these two things mean although I know that "episkop"

    > is a title equivalent to bishop in Orthodox churches.



    Exactly. An episcopalian church is run by bishops. Presbyterian comes from, I

    believe, presbuteroi, which I have been led to believe means "elders". A

    presbyterian church has no "official" leaders (such as bishops) but instead

    has "church elders". The Catholic, Orthodox, and High Anglicans are all

    episcopalian. Most other Protestants (Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, etc.)

    are presbyterian I believe.



    > As much as it is silly to assume that everything should be the same. If

    > you want to play a historical game, than do it.



    Don`t worry, if I wanted to I would not have asked for your permission! :)

    I rarely play truly historical RPGs. I play historical wargames to get my fix

    of rigorous adherence to history. I don`t think anyone is saying, I am

    certainly not, that we should play a rigorously historical BR game. I have

    never said "There should be no Gorgon because there were never any giant stone

    monster-men." My criticisms of the Gorgon are mainly directed at people

    misusing his intelligence as an argument for why he should be a wizard.



    I just think that it is obvious that BR is partly a game about pseudo-medieval

    government and partly a game of high fantasy. We are happy to look at fantastic

    sources for inspiration about how to add complexity to the fantastic parts of

    the game; why do some people feel so bad about looking at historical sources

    for inspiration about the parts of the game that resemble something from our

    history?



    Totally unrelated: Milos, I notice that someone with the same name as you a

    Hero Quest PBeM now. Is that you? How do you find the game?



    --

    John Machin

    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

    -----------------------------------------------------

    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

    -----------------------------------------------------

    - Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.
    John 'Trithemius' Machin
    The Other John From Dunedin (now in Canberra)
    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

  2. #42
    Senior Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    irdeggman:

    > Ouch. :o

    > I haven`t `pissed` you off lately have I Kenneth?



    I`m certain if you had, you would have heard about it; there`s not a lot of

    punch-pulling going on around here.



    --

    John Machin

    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

    -----------------------------------------------------

    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

    -----------------------------------------------------

    - Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.
    John 'Trithemius' Machin
    The Other John From Dunedin (now in Canberra)
    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

  3. #43
    Senior Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    Anthony Juarez:

    > Many of us stopped following the conversation awhile ago.



    Not me. Frequently some useful points come out of these furious arguments, if

    repetition can be staved off long enough.



    > Keep it to yourself, okay? Or at least make your insults short and witty so

    > as to entertain the rest of us....



    I`m personally okay with verbose and witty, to be honest. Must be all that Jack

    Vance I have read.



    > You know for a fact that Gary is the Moderator of our list. He`s gonna

    > post something about not trolling people. He has to. It`s his job; we

    > elected him to do it. And you know it`ll make him look petty. Why do

    > that? Because this goes to the forum, I`m sure Irdegmon will post a

    > link to his "we should all be friends" post again just to try to keep

    > things civil.



    I think its a terrible idea to mention the word "troll". They out to make a law

    about it, like the one with Nazis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin`s_law

    Sometimes people`s earnest attempts to make a point gets called "trolling".

    It`s best to avoid the word entirely in my opinion. (I think Kenneth actually

    brought it up first this time around, I`m not keeping score though).



    > This was largely unnecessary. And I`m not saying it because I have to.

    > Damn. I`ll probably get reprimanded too, now...



    Yeah, I was going to say something about kettles and pots and the colour

    black. ;)



    --

    John Machin

    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

    -----------------------------------------------------

    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

    -----------------------------------------------------

    - Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.
    John 'Trithemius' Machin
    The Other John From Dunedin (now in Canberra)
    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

  4. #44
    Senior Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    Gary:

    > United in Hatred of Gary,

    > Gary



    This reminds me of the old line:

    "I`m self-employed. Yeah, the boss is a right pxxxk!"



    BTW how much are the annual membership dues Gary ;P



    --

    John Machin

    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

    -----------------------------------------------------

    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

    -----------------------------------------------------

    - Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.
    John 'Trithemius' Machin
    The Other John From Dunedin (now in Canberra)
    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

  5. #45
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 04:11 PM 2/6/2004 +1300, John Machin wrote:



    >I`m certain if you had, you would have heard about it; there`s not a lot

    >of punch-pulling going on around here.



    Actually, I`ve been pulling a lot of punches. I give my posts a quick once

    over before I send them and lately I`ve deleted nearly as much text from

    them as I`ve sent because upon rereading I thought some stuff was too

    provocative (not incorrect, mind you, just too provocative.) If I said

    what I *really* thought I`m pretty sure that`d be a bad thing. Even the

    edited versions raised accusations of trolling and some out and out flames....



    Gary

  6. #46
    Senior Member
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    > Not me. Frequently some useful points come out of these furious

    > arguments, if

    > repetition can be staved off long enough.



    True. Two points here: 1) I wasn`t speaking for everyone, and 2) I

    really shouldn`t have made the comment because it kind of hurts those

    who are following and hope to participate or lurk. The "no one wants to

    hear this" is about the stupidest comment you can make on a list/board,

    and I`m as proficient with my DEL key as anyone.



    >> Keep it to yourself, okay? Or at least make your insults short and

    >> witty so

    >> as to entertain the rest of us....

    >

    > I`m personally okay with verbose and witty, to be honest. Must be all

    > that Jack

    > Vance I have read.



    Okay, I don`t who Jack Vance is off the top of my head. Tomorrow I`ll

    look through my book collection and if its not their I`ll bug my

    librarian about it.



    > I think its a terrible idea to mention the word "troll". They out to

    > make a law

    > about it, like the one with Nazis.



    You can replace the word with another more to your liking, if you wish.



    >> This was largely unnecessary. And I`m not saying it because I have to.

    >> Damn. I`ll probably get reprimanded too, now...

    >

    > Yeah, I was going to say something about kettles and pots and the

    > colour

    > black. ;)



    Yeah, yeah... You people and your archaic cookware... I know.



    --Lord Rahvin
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  7. #47
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    John Machin schrieb:



    >Milos Rasic:

    >

    >

    >>Arabs, who have, too, been influenced by Persians, Phoenicians,

    >>Egyptians and other less famous nations too numerous to list here.

    >>Masetians represent those ancient nations, mostly Egyptians, probably

    >>because they are best known.

    >>

    >>

    >I`m confused.

    >I think we may be differing in the Arabs we are referring to. I meant primarily

    >the pre-Islamic tribesmen of the southern Arabia.

    >

    >I like my Masetians to be Persian over Egyptian. The only Egyptian feel I get

    >from the Masetians is via the Serpent. The problem is, I don`t believe either

    >of these historical people were especially nautically inclined. My preference

    >then is to assume that the Masetians would be Persians, since the Persian

    >preoccupation with astronomy and astrology would conceivable have some use in

    >maritime navigation.

    >

    Especially nautiaclly inclined? As far as I remember most ancient sea

    travles were nothing special nautically as most ships stayed if possible

    in sight of the coast to navigate (remember the game Civilization in

    which the early galley units have a chance to vanish if they are not

    close to land on the end of the turn? ;-)). However that does not mean

    that the early seafaring nations did not travel far and wide. Especially

    the phoenizians were known to travel not only the mediterranian sea but

    also to britannia (was it zinc or tin they bought there I don´t

    remember). I remember to have heard about one early sea travel around

    africa but I can´t remember if it was egyptian or phoenician, they

    brought a gorilla with them.



    Something else: The "Rus" that were no slavs that someone mentioned

    earlier have been called "Waräger" in my german history lessons so I did

    not recognize the name immediately.

    bye

    Michael

  8. #48
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 04:23 PM 2/6/2004 +1300, John Machin wrote:



    >BTW how much are the annual membership dues Gary ;P



    1RP.



    Gary

  9. #49
    Senior Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    Quoting Michael Romes <Archmage@T-ONLINE.DE>:

    > Especially nautiaclly inclined? As far as I remember most ancient sea

    > travles were nothing special nautically as most ships stayed if

    > possible in sight of the coast to navigate (remember the game Civilization in

    > which the early galley units have a chance to vanish if they are not

    > close to land on the end of the turn? ;-)). However that does not mean

    > that the early seafaring nations did not travel far and wide.

    > Especially the phoenizians were known to travel not only the mediterranian

    > sea but also to britannia (was it zinc or tin they bought there I don´t

    > remember). I remember to have heard about one early sea travel around

    > africa but I can´t remember if it was egyptian or phoenician, they

    > brought a gorilla with them.



    My point was that I see the Masetians as Persian-like EXCEPT that they were

    nautically inclined. The Masetians had a sea-deity; the Persians did not

    regard the sea as an ally.



    Also: the Masestians are said to have encountered the Basarji, which would

    involve a journey far away from coasts (to the Dragon Isles and/or the Golden

    Archipelago)



    --

    John Machin

    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

    -----------------------------------------------------

    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

    -----------------------------------------------------

    - Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.
    John 'Trithemius' Machin
    The Other John From Dunedin (now in Canberra)
    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

  10. #50
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    " A Lt is not a regent, but can be a scion."

    I`ll have to go through the BR materials to find them, but IIRC there are a
    couple of occasions where the relationship between regents appears to be
    that of a Regent/LT. It appears that originally a character could be both
    a Vassal and a LT to the same Liege.
    Only regents could perform domain actions BRRB pg 50

    Once per Domain Turn the regent may assign a Lt to a Domain Action. The LT maynot be used for any other action that Domain Turn including responding to random event or going on an adventure. BRRB pg 57

    Book of Regency pg 71 has a section on The Lt becomes a vassal

    Putting these all together seems to paint the picture that a Lt can&#39;t be a vassal and can&#39;t run his own holdings. For one only regents had domain actions and a Lt could only perform a sihgle domain action in a domain turn and not perform any other action if he did including adventuring. This latter one would seem to place an extreme restriction on any type of LT being a vassal or even being a regent.



    " Just noticed that these terms wern`t included in the glossary of the
    BRCS, we will have to `fix` that during the revision."

    Sound good. Were the aforementioned definitions the ones that will go in
    the glossary?

    Gary
    Unless something else comes up not based on house-rules to redefine these terms then I would say yes those will be the definitions since they are brief and descriptive.
    Duane Eggert

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