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Thread: Experience For Domain Actions?
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01-05-2004, 12:35 AM #1
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Hi everyone,
As you know if you've read my other posts, I'm playing that old PC game, the Gorgon's alliance. It inspired me to start up a BR campaign and I'm gearing up for it.
In the game the regents and lieutenants get experience for performing domain actions successfully. Is this something unique to the game, or should my PC regents or lieutentants be getting XP for domain actions, too? I couldn't find a chart in the d20 reference that I downloaded, so I thought I would ask here what you all do.
Do your PCs just experience through adventuring, or do you award for domain actions?
thanks!Carpe DM
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01-05-2004, 01:35 AM #2
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Originally posted by camelotcrusade@Jan 5 2004, 01:35 AM
Hi everyone,
As you know if you've read my other posts, I'm playing that old PC game, the Gorgon's alliance. It inspired me to start up a BR campaign and I'm gearing up for it.
In the game the regents and lieutenants get experience for performing domain actions successfully. Is this something unique to the game, or should my PC regents or lieutentants be getting XP for domain actions, too? I couldn't find a chart in the d20 reference that I downloaded, so I thought I would ask here what you all do.
Do your PCs just experience through adventuring, or do you award for domain actions?
thanks!
I believe many (if not most) games that are heavy on domain level play feature some mechanism for rewarding characters XP for the domain actions they perform. There is a short paragraph on the subject on page 150 in the D20 conversion.
Some previous discussion on the topic can be found at
http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php...t=ST&f=2&t=2070
and (long thread, and mixed with a lot of other stuff)
http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php...=ST&f=36&t=1876
There are most likely other old threads that somebody can point out to you.
Personally I prefer the PCs getting the majority of their experience through adventures, with some gained from the completion of important domain actions. What constitutes as an important domain action is of course a matter of taste. One example could be a espionage action that allows the players to uncover who was behind the assassination of an important person at the court.
Cheers,
Don E
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01-05-2004, 04:14 AM #3
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Thank you very much for the reply, I will check it out. I hope somebody can dig up the adventure editor for me to use with my computer game, too!
camelotcrusadeCarpe DM
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01-05-2004, 09:49 PM #4
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In a message dated 1/4/04 8:07:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:
<< Is this something unique to the game, or should my PC regents or
lieutentants be getting XP for domain actions, too? I couldn't find a chart in the
d20 reference that I downloaded, so I thought I would ask here what you all
do. Do your PCs just experience through adventuring, or do you award for
domain actions?thanks! >>
I do not. I prefer to give RP or other rewards for domain actions, and XP
only for adventuring.
Lee.
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01-05-2004, 10:35 PM #5
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Then how do you explain a regent gaining level if he is not an adventurer?
I don`t see someone like the Duchess of Brosengae racing off to adventure
and fight Trolls in the mountains. She would have men at arms and champions
to do that.
3e D&D made a point to award XP for non combat encounters.
You should gain XP for successfully ruling and maintaing a domain not just
adventuring.
-Anakin Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hanna" <LeeHa1854@AOL.COM>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] Experience For Domain Actions? [2#2182]
> In a message dated 1/4/04 8:07:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:
>
> << Is this something unique to the game, or should my PC regents or
> lieutentants be getting XP for domain actions, too? I couldn't find a
chart in the
> d20 reference that I downloaded, so I thought I would ask here what you
all
> do. Do your PCs just experience through adventuring, or do you award for
> domain actions?thanks! >>
>
> I do not. I prefer to give RP or other rewards for domain actions, and XP
> only for adventuring.
>
> Lee.
>
>
>
> Birthright-l Archives:
http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
>
>
>
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01-06-2004, 12:37 AM #6
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I dunno about 3e as I'm strictly playing 2e but I think XP can be awarded for non-combat actions, like roleplaying. If a player handled diplomacy or a random event or some other domain action in which he put in effort to roleplay, he should be rewarded for it. As this is a roleplaying game, roleplaying should be rewarded, right?
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01-06-2004, 03:32 AM #7
At 01:37 AM 1/6/2004 +0100, Elijah wrote:
>I dunno about 3e as I`m strictly playing 2e but I think XP can be awarded
>for non-combat actions, like roleplaying. If a player handled diplomacy or
>a random event or some other domain action in which he put in effort to
>roleplay, he should be rewarded for it. As this is a roleplaying game,
>roleplaying should be rewarded, right? :)
I absolutely agree. I keep a tally of players` good role-playing; witty
dialogue, smart moves that aid the action, good descriptions, etc. all get
a little hash mark that later turns into a CR award based on their
character level. Particularly good role-playing (or just particularly good
play) can sometimes earn two hash marks, and from time to time I have noted
particularly bad play by taking away hash marks.
When awarding XP I use the following formula as a guideline to determine
the role-playing award. Add the number of hash marks to the character
level of the PC and subtract the number of encounters in the adventure to
get a CR value. That is, if a player with a 5th level PC got three hash
marks in an adventure that had four encounters he would get 3 (hash marks)
+ 5 (character level) - 4 (encounters) = CR 4 award. I then divide this
award by 4 since the CR system assumes four characters in the party and
this is an individual award, so the PC would get 250 XP for role-playing in
that adventure.
Because of the steps in the CR award table really good, consistent play can
sometimes rival or exceed that of encounters--depending on the nature of
the adventure, of course. In the same adventure a player who got six hash
marks would get 6 + 5 - 4 = CR 7 award for 750 XP, while his share of four
CR 4 encounters would be 1,500 XP. (Actually, I always award 1/4 the XP
suggested in the DMG since I just find that a much more comfortable pace of
levelling characters (and prefer a low level campaign anyway) so in the
previous example a character IMC would actually earn 500XP for his
encounters and 750 for good role-playing)
I usually play domain actions out as adventures, so generally I`m in favor
of XP awards for domain actions since I see them as just a way of resolving
adventure level results, so XP awards are built in, but if one just
determined the results of the domain actions with a die roll one could
still award role-playing using the same formula as that above, assuming a
certain number of encounters based on the difficulty of the action. Say 1
encounter per 5 points of difficulty. PCs should get XP for domain level
actions, but they should get more XP for domain level actions that players
actually involve themselves in, so depending on the amount of actual
role-playing they do such a system could help inject more role-playing into
the domain level, which can easily be a distraction otherwise.
Gary
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01-06-2004, 01:51 PM #8
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EDIT: Doh, my spaces aren't working. Anybody know how I can get them to show up? It's nicely spaced in my box before I submit it...
If I can't fix it, then assume the first # is for fighters, the second for priests, the 3rd for thieves, and the 4th for wizard characters.
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Finally, something to contribute! It's not exactly appropriate to 3e, but I found the computer game's system for rewarding xp for domain actions and will post it here. Don't shoot the messenger, but I think it's interesting to see:
For the purpose of this table, Bards are considered Thieves, Paladins as fighters, and Rangers as fighters
Domain Action Fighter Priest Thief Wizard
Agitate 500 1,000 1,000 1,000
Build Road 50 50 50 50
Build Trde Rte 500 500 3,000 500
Contest Guild 500 500 2,000 500
Law 2,000 500 500 500
Source 500 500 500 2,000
Temple 500 2,000 500 500
Create Guild 500 500 2,000 500
Law 2,000 500 500 500
Source 500 500 500 2,000
Temple 500 2,000 500 500
Declare War 1,000 500 500 500
Diplomacy
Per. Alliance 2,000 2,000 2,000 2,000
Full Alliance 4,000 4,000 4,000 4,000
Vassalage 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000
Espionage
Spy 500 500 1000 500
Assassinate 500 500 1000 500
Forge Ley Line 500 500 500 2,000
Investiture 5,000 5,000 5,000 5,000
Realm Spell 1,000 x Spell Level
Rule
Province 1,000 x New Level
Guild Holding 500 x New Level (but Thieves 1,000 x New Level)
Law Holding 500 x New Level (but Fighters 1,000 x New Level)
Source Hold. 500 x New Level (but Wizards 1,000 x New Level)
Temple Hold. 500 x New Level (but Priests 1,000 x New Level)
Multiclass characters get their appropriate bonus.
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I can say from experience that in the game it ends up leveling everyone up to the same playing field rather quickly (about level 7-9) and after you hit level 10 or so the amounts don't matter as much (particularly using 2nd edition xp tables).
I think this resource is interesting because it suggests the idea of giving bonuses for classes acting "as a class should" and rewarding you accordingly. What do you guys think about that idea? I may use the chart in the playtest guide for 3, but award bonuses when PCs work on their areas of specialty. It could also help you level up a low-ranking lieutenant...Carpe DM
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01-06-2004, 02:10 PM #9
If the nature of one`s campaign is to play a lot of political scenarios,
expository scenarios (eg. players visit Halskapa, learn the history,
politics, and important characters in the realm), and scenarios based on
realm turns, it can be hard to get very much combat in. The realm turns are
the easiest to add combat to (many involve potential confrontations) but
again the stakes of such confrontaions are often much higher than the actual
combat risk. Take a recent occurance of a Monsters of Brigandage. I placed
a family of seven ogres (two brothers and their families) in Hollenvik as
one of several random events. They players set off wanting to determine if
the ogres were politically hostile or just causing trouble because they have
over-hunted their range and were just preying on local livestock. Well, had
the ogres just needed fresh hunting grounds, the players would have arranged
parley and told the ogres where they could hunt undisturbed. They would
treat the adventure as though the ogres were a band of the Rykar tribe of
nomadic Rjurik. Had the ogres been politically hostile and from a foreign
realm, they would have been treated as enemies and either defeated or
co-opted, depending the realm and the loyalty of the ogres. In this case
the ogres were taking revenge on the town of Stoer for the murder of one of
their kinsmen. The party arrives in Stoer, and quickly finds out the
sheriff and his men killed a young male ogre several weeks ago. He had been
caught stealing cattle. They party wants to settle the matter without
outright defeat of the ogres, because you never know when you will encounter
people you have met befoe and parted on goods terms with. Friendly ogres
could be valuable. On the other hand, the ogres are in the wrong (by Rjurik
law) in pursuing this feud. The young ogre was killed in a raid, and his
family is not entitled to wergild (man-price). Now the ogres must be
convinced and agree to leave Stoer in peace. So the players go out hunting
the ogres, who don`t want to be found and are canny in the wilderness.
Eventually the PC druid ended up casting a Commune with Nature spell to
locate the ogres, a spell I complicated by having the spell summon a hostile
fey to answer the druid. The boogie in question knew the location of the
ogres but just didn`t want to tell the druid anything, yet was summoned by
the spell and was compelled by the spell to remain summoned until he told.
This just made the boogie man more angry. First the boogie tried to make
the party go away so the boogie could either try and out wait the summoning
or have his "curse` lifted by an ally. He tried to become invisible, played
tricks on the party and was otherwise a nusance. The ranger, Herthbjorn,
captured the boogie as it attempted to trip him, and put the boogie into a
deeper form of compulsion. Fey hate to be prisoners, and many will go to
great lengths to gain their freedom, including granting "wishes" by casting
fey magic (not true wishes). But this boogie was still insistant upon
refusing to provide the location of the ogres ... unless the ranger could
answer a riddle. http://www.catb.org/~esr/riddle-poems.html
The boogie gave the following riddle, "A tree of many branches, my forest in
flight, when captured, I become an ornament bright." Eventually the players
figured out the answer was a feather, and the boogie answered the druid`s
question and revealed the location of the ogres. Challenge rating of 3 for
a party of 5.
The players arrived at the location given them, an ogre camp, and find fresh
tracks, the follow and find the ogres passing around a bucket of water at a
pond. Neither group is surprised, and the eorl of Hollenvik, Cuthbeort the
ironarm, announced he is there to settle the matter of the feud between the
ogres and the town of Stoer. The two ogre brothers get angry, one of the
female ogres cries out in pain. They demand that the murderers pay for the
death of their son/nephew. It is their custom to demand the same weight in
human flesh as the ogre who was killed. In the meantime, they respect no
proptery rights among the murderers. The eorl Cuthbeort tells them that as
their kinsmen died on a raid stealing cattle, they have no rights to
compensation as he was not murdered, only killed. (Murder required the
killed be innocent.) Neither side is willing to abide bye the law of the
other side, so Cuthbeort declares that in such cases, single combat must
settle the question once and for all. The ogres agree to these terms.
Cuthbeort suggests rowing out to an island on the coast of Hollenvik for
single combat in the Rjurik tradition. The ogres have no intention going
across water to settle this matter. Both agree to duel at this present
location. The ogres agree that either the death of Cuthbeort or his victory
will satisfy their feud. They mark out an area that the combatants must
remain inside or forfit. The dead ogre`s uncle, the older of the brothers
and a 5th level fighter, will fight against Cuthbeort. The ogre tries to
disarm, trip, and bull rush Cuthbeort. These will make use of his much
superior Strength (of 24, BTW) and size. Cuthbeort is basically counting on
his much higher BAB and hp (Arisocrat 10/Fighter 4) and his Improved
Critical. After a few knockdowns and getting an ogre power attack in the
prone possition, and loosing his sword twice (both times he was able to
recover it in the dueling area) Cuthbeort got the two criticals he needed to
reduce the ogre`s wounds to below zero (the ogre had 79 hp and 18 wounds)
and claimed victory. A bit of healing magic was used to get the defeated
ogre on his feat again. Cuthbeort declared that if the ogres continued the
feud after their defeat, he would regard them as outlaws in his realm and
would once again hunt them down as such. He successfuly implied (innuendo)
that next time there would be no single combat, just an all out attack. The
ogres agreed that the matter was settled and were impressed by Cuthbeort`s
prowess and compassion.
This is what passes for a combat oriented advenure in my campiagn. Two
encounters, one fight involving a single character. Now we do run up and
make war against the Blood Skull barony from time to time, and those are
mostly combat, with some tactical problem solving and survival skills thrown
in. But, most of the time, adventures can be nearly combat free, full of
gather information checks, diplomacy, and figuring out who is up to what.
In the above description, the CR for the boogie was 3, insignificant for a
party of five whose average level is 15, and all of the ogres together is a
CR of 8, enough to be worth 375 xp for the party, and the lead ogre a CR of
7 for 350 xp for Cuthbeort. Instead, I went with a mission goal and
assigned 1000xp apeice and gave Cuthbeort a RP plus the party has the
intangible benefit of some ogres who will regard them as fair and worthy
(although not friendly).
Typically, if a Domain Action is played out, I`ll give a mission award based
on what is at stake. I`ve use 500-2000 xp for total mission awards for
lower level characters (who are confronting less powerful adversaries) and
1000-3000 xp for higher level characters. Typically, I don`t give standard
combat awards if I am giving mission awards, but I have given combat awards
out on top of mission awards when the PC`s do little side encounters during
a larger mission (eg. the arrive in a town to find out what role the
Stjordvik Traders had in the corruption of a royal judge, find out the town
children are being abuducted by a wierd hermit and go save the children
before uncovering the corrution mission). The extra encounter has to be
unrelated to main mission and the PC`s need to have the option of passing it
up to advance the mission (the PC`s did not have to bother with the children
to uncover the corruption, in fact the delay risked making the central
mission more difficult) in order for me to assign standard awards for such
encounters. Encountering bandits on the road is not going to be an
opportunity for standard awards unless the PC`s did not have to confront
them and could have left them to their business, but chose to deal with the
bandits anyway.
Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com
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01-06-2004, 05:07 PM #10
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Originally posted by camelotcrusade@Jan 6 2004, 08:51 AM
Declare War 1,000 500 500 500
Investiture 5,000 5,000 5,000 5,000
------
I can say from experience that in the game it ends up leveling everyone up to the same playing field rather quickly (about level 7-9) and after you hit level 10 or so the amounts don't matter as much (particularly using 2nd edition xp tables).
I think this resource is interesting because it suggests the idea of giving bonuses for classes acting "as a class should" and rewarding you accordingly. What do you guys think about that idea? I may use the chart in the playtest guide for 3, but award bonuses when PCs work on their areas of specialty. It could also help you level up a low-ranking lieutenant...
Also investiture is something that is not overcoming an obstacle.
How can you reward a character for playing like a class when he/she is multi-class or dual classed? This system would favor demi-humans since they are more likely to be multi-class while humans are very unlikely to be dual class (as I recall the 2nd ed rules were a 17 abililty score in the primary ability of the subsequent class and the character cannot advance in his first class anymore).
Also many of the things mentioned are really independent of class - like ruling for instance. A character can rule up a holding or he/she can rule an entire province there is no real difference in the domain action per se.
One of the many improvements made in 3/3.5 was the elimination of the flat exp number awards. Everything is scaled based on the challenge the situation presents.Duane Eggert
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