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  1. #1
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    Ok after reading threw that PDF thing I figered this would work better for my games (PS and others). Still needs work but this is my draft vershon so some of it might not make any sence yet.

    Legendary Trait [General]
    You are one of the rare people who have the innate talent to do things others cant.
    Benefit: You gain a Legendary Score equal to 10 + 2d6. The legendary score is a measure of the talent the character has to do things he could not have done other wise. The score gives the following bonuses, the scores ability modifer adds to the characters Diplomacy checks, and the character can take legendary feats.
    Note:This score acts like the standard ability scores for its modifer. The character can spend the ability increases he gets every for levels to increase this score.
    Special:You can only take this feat as a 1st-level character. Acquiring this feat requires the approval of the DM.

    Needs work I know but other wise how does it look.

  2. #2
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    OK, let's set aside the fact that this has nothing to do with Birthright for now.


    Your feat is poorly specified.
    The legendary score is a measure of the talent the character has to do things he could not have done other wise.
    Is this in addition to the prereq ability and the diplomacy bonus? Is this just flavour text or do they get a "Legendary Roll" under certain circumstances? Why does that "ability" equate to a Diplomacy bonus anyway?
    The score gives the following bonuses, the scores ability modifer adds to the characters Diplomacy checks
    What sort of bonus is this? Enhancement, inherent, unnamed, divine, what?


    It is potentially unbalanced and against the basic tenets of feat design.
    Your max bonus from that roll is +6: triple that of skill focus and it relies on a random factor, a die roll.


    It has negligible value when invested in
    The character can spend the ability increases he gets every for levels to increase this score.
    So, that would equate to +1/2 a single skill for your ability point investment. Putting the point into charisma instead would gain that same +1/2 bonus plus another +1/2 bonus to Bluff, Disguise, Gather Information, Perform and Use Magic Device (if you have it). Or put the point into Int and get 1/2 an actual skill point per level and a +1/2 to another bushel of skills.


    But then again, this has nothing to do with Birthright, so I don't know why I'm bothering. Out! Out! Foul demons of munchkinry!

    CM.

  3. #3
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    well theres a reson why you must have a DMs approvel first.

  4. #4
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    [Originally posted by CMonkey
    OK, let's set aside the fact that this has nothing to do with Birthright for now.
    This feat has nothing to do with the regent system explicit, but that does not mean it has nothing to do with Birthright as such.
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  5. #5
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Law@Nov 28 2003, 07:37 PM
    Legendary Trait [General]
    You are one of the rare people who have the innate talent to do things others cant.
    Benefit: You gain a Legendary Score equal to 10 + 2d6. The legendary score is a measure of the talent the character has to do things he could not have done other wise. The score gives the following bonuses, the scores ability modifer adds to the characters Diplomacy checks, and the character can take legendary feats.
    Note:This score acts like the standard ability scores for its modifer. The character can spend the ability increases he gets every for levels to increase this score.
    Special:You can only take this feat as a 1st-level character. Acquiring this feat requires the approval of the DM.
    The feat indeed needs some polish. You should try to answer the following questions, if you want create a new feat:
    • Does something like this exist already?
    • What exactly can I do with it? (that for example is still a question to me)
    • Where exactly can I use it? (As a regent? Generally? Where are the limits?)
    • What kind of bonus (if any) does it grant exactly? (As CMonkey already said)
    • What makes this feat better than others I only can take at 1st level? (Example: The FR “Must have feat” “Spellcasting Prodigy” for Spellcasters)
    • Is it somehow comparable with other feats? (Creating an 8th ability score is a bit exotic, I never read something like this in other books)
    • Is it balanced? (Compared to other feats, blood abilities or other special abilities. If it’s better than all three, it’s definitively unbalanced [For me it seems to be better a blood ability than a feat])
    • Are the prerequisites high/ low enough, if you compare it with other feats?


    Balance is the greatest hindrance if you want create some new stuff. Above you can see already some notes about it. If you’re (or the rest of the community is ) of the opinion, that feat is still unbalanced, create hindrances, limits, heighten the prerequisites (and don’t let decide the DM, if he thinks the feat is OK). You really can be creative with that: Something like Wis 19+ can make it balancing (This would wipe out all classes apart from monk [if he would be existent ], cleric and druid [more rarely paladins and rangers] from this feat for example) OK, if you combine Wis 19+ and 1st level there will be one player in a million (who plays either a non-human or a Vorynn blooded) who can take it, so this combination might not be the best, but it’s an example.

    If you can answer all those questions and you took all advices, it still needn’t to be the “perfect” feat. Then you should start a playtest to figure out holes, you didn’t see until now...

    Good Luck with the creation
    [/list]
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Law@Nov 28 2003, 01:37 PM

    Legendary Trait [General]
    You are one of the rare people who have the innate talent to do things others cant.
    Benefit: You gain a Legendary Score equal to 10 + 2d6. The legendary score is a measure of the talent the character has to do things he could not have done other wise. The score gives the following bonuses, the scores ability modifer adds to the characters Diplomacy checks, and the character can take legendary feats.
    Note:This score acts like the standard ability scores for its modifer. The character can spend the ability increases he gets every for levels to increase this score.
    Special:You can only take this feat as a 1st-level character. Acquiring this feat requires the approval of the DM.

    Needs work I know but other wise how does it look.
    I agree with CMonkey and Ariadne here. This post wasn't very clear as to how this fit into anything. The best I can interpret it that the "Legendary Trait" generates a 7th score - like the blood score and then there will be a series of related feats (the reference to legendary feats) that add on to accomplish something. I'm just not sure what the intent is here though.

    You've got to be clearer when making a proposal for discussion. One thing I've come across in the past is someone making a proposal for discussion that was based on house-rules that weren't posted so there was no way to make a reference to what the intent was. Remember that most people don't have a set of your house-rules in front of them and if you haven't made them available via posting they really don't understand what the context of the proposal is.
    Duane Eggert

  7. #7
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    My own reading of the feat is that you get to pick one basic attribute and

    instead of rolling 3d6, you roll 10 + 2d6 instead. So you could thereby

    have a legendary strength or charisma, or whatever.



    Since I have no objection to a DM fiat during character creation that says,

    "Hey Bob your character as a 19 in whatever score you want" I don`t have any

    objection to this feat. I wouldn`t use it because 1 in 12 times a player is

    giving up a feat and getting a score of 13 or 14 as a result. On the other

    hand, 1 in 6 times he can have a 20, 21 or 22, which I think is a bit high.



    A feat that offered a strait 17, no roll required, would be more to my

    liking. Of course I use the point buy system, so the feat would have to

    offer +3 points to the pool to cover those cases. (Maybe +2, I`d have to

    look it over.)



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  8. #8
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    What we`ve got here is an attempt to portray a heroic capacity that is

    beyond even the standard D&D adventure level. In as much as that is what

    the domain level represents in many ways I think we might have some sort of

    connection between the two levels of play. What if "Legendary Trait" were

    not a feat, but instead part of how one might do things like use RP at the

    adventure level of play? What if one could use the ability that the feat

    grants, or something very similar to it by spending an RP in an adventure?



    Gary

  9. #9
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by kgauck@Nov 30 2003, 08:53 PM
    My own reading of the feat is that you get to pick one basic attribute and instead of rolling 3d6, you roll 10 + 2d6 instead. So you could thereby have a legendary strength or charisma, or whatever.
    That would make sense, so you let one role fall down to use this method. But how? Rolling five abilities and if there is only a 15 at best choosing this feat? Saying it at first and then rolling at all?

    BTW, if you choose the roll 4d6, drop one and roll three tables method, there is a 17 nearly granetd and you don't need to spend a feat...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  10. #10
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ariadne+Dec 1 2003, 05:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ariadne @ Dec 1 2003, 05:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--kgauck@Nov 30 2003, 08:53 PM
    My own reading of the feat is that you get to pick one basic attribute and instead of rolling 3d6, you roll 10 + 2d6 instead.* So you could thereby have a legendary strength or charisma, or whatever.
    That would make sense, so you let one role fall down to use this method. But how? Rolling five abilities and if there is only a 15 at best choosing this feat? Saying it at first and then rolling at all?

    BTW, if you choose the roll 4d6, drop one and roll three tables method, there is a 17 nearly granetd and you don&#39;t need to spend a feat... [/b][/quote]

    Also Kenneth, how can a Strength or Dex score give a bonus to diplomacy? There is also the point that feats are chosen after ability scores and race are picked (or generated). The order of character generation is ability scores, race (which can modify the original ability scores), class. This order is important as pointed out by the Sage whenever advancing in level - character level based things first, then class level based, which is the reason that an Intelligence ability increase (due to character level advancement) grants any increase in skill points at that class level and why a character can&#39;t take a prestige class at the same time he gains class-based prerequisites - for example the BAB (which is based on class level), but he could if he needed a feat that was gained by advancing in character level.

    We&#39;ve all been applying suppostition and assumptions to what Law was trying to put out, why don&#39;t we let him rephrase what he originally posted in an attempt to make his intent clearer instead?

    Law, its back on you - please restate what you were proposing in a different manner so that we can get a better understanding of what you were intending.
    Duane Eggert

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