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Thread: Prestige Classes
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11-05-2003, 01:02 AM #21
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My 2 cents (Canadian):
Prestiege Classes
There are alot of people who dislike the idea of throwing them into the game, saying that they will change the game into a collection of 'Godlike' characters.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
The idea of a Prestiege Class is to allow for variety from the basic 3.5 classes. A PrCl is not, in itself a godlike thing. It is a departure from the strict, narrow path which is a standard class, and a way of bringing colour, flavour and variety to the campaign world. PrCls tend to be balanced, both against each other, and against the standard classes (the Mystic Theurge being an obvious exception), and the nuber of levels that each one has is not a reflection of how powerful it is -- it merely graduates the game effects of the class over a longer pariod of itme and allows a further branching from the standard class that the player came from.
I fully support the creation of 3.5 PrCls for BR, and whether they be 5-level or 10 level classes, it makes no difference. If a DM is going to be running a low-level campaign, it is a moot point. If the DM does not want to deal with Epic characters, then it doesn't really matter how many levels tere are of PrCl, as you will be trading off levels in the standard classes for PrCl levels.
-Mike"It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."
- R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long
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11-05-2003, 01:13 AM #22
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PrCls tend to be balanced, both against each other, and against the standard classes (the Mystic Theurge being an obvious exception)
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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11-05-2003, 09:47 AM #23Originally posted by The Jew@Nov 5 2003, 02:13 AM
Mystic theurge is actually one of the more balanced prestige classes, as long as you start playing the character 6th level or earlier.
Otherwise this prestige class is discussed greately. A clr 3/ wiz 3/ mystic theurge 10 gains a spellcasting ability of a clr 13/ wiz 13 (character level 26), but you trade it for wizard bonus feats and the better turn undead ability (and don't forget, multiclassing characters gain higher level spells later). If this PrC is overpowered or balanced is everybodie's own taste...May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!
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11-05-2003, 02:55 PM #24
After reading through 3.5, it seems prestige classes now serve 1 of 2 main functions:
1) Combine 2 base classes as a multiclass character into a flavored combination single prestige class. Most of the "new" 3.5 prestige classes in the DMG (as opposed to those in the 3.0 DMG) represent this aspect, such as Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge, etc. And they left out a bunch of other possiblilities which I've had fun playing with: a Divine Trickster (cleric/rogue with the Trickery domain, replaces Ranged Legerdemain w/ Cosmic Prank...), the Noble Wizard (a rare bird of the BR world that almost got used before poor Osric died...), and others. These are my particular favorites, allowing a balanced split-class character to take one class well-suited to their particular multiclass blend.
2) A specialist of some sort. The specialists tend to either be really good in their particular area (the Red Wizard is a quintessential example here, the Thaumaturgist another), or gain some unique abilities related to their specialty (such as the Assassin). Most of the 3.0 prestige classes were of this variety, of which there were many cool ones and some not so well designed...
Overall, I really like using prestige classes in the advanced game. They allow for almost endless variety of flavor and distinction for the veteran characters (PC and NPC) of the game world.
-Osprey
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11-06-2003, 02:32 AM #25
One of the issues that has been hard-pressed (really a lot! with the move-on to 3e - and, lately, 3.5e - of D&D is that it has caused the setting of Birthright to lose much of its reachness; others support it shouldn't even be a D&D setting at all!
I think that since the people who do us a favour by converting the setting for these versions, since they do put tremendour effort in all of this, made the choice of actually stepping up to 3.5e (a relief granted to us by the WotC, Inc., so that these very people would continue this setting for d20), I think we should try and incorporate the new motifs to the setting. And that does not only include the obvious issues, but the not so obvious as well...
For that matter, let me give you the example that inspired me to write to above ranting: the matter of level of the world. While the world is a high-fantasy setting, it is also a generally low-magic setting as well. Furthermore, it cannot be helped: 2e Birthright was always a low-level setting!
But what should be considered as low-level in 3(.5)e? Chechk out the XP advancement; anyone can see that getting your character up to 20th level, even in Birthright, is rather easy! How do you then define "low level"?
Let me tell you one thing, really, for this is where it all leads to: we can always lower the awards of encounters, like making them 50% the value it should normally be granted to them (that means half the XP and half the price of items!, a theme I really like for low-level settings. Also, increase the mean level of all characters according to their current level. An idea would be:
01-03 --> 01-05
04-07 --> 06-10
08-11 --> 11-15
12-15 --> 16-20
As for the importance and standing of Prestige Classes, I can present two examples that can easilly make clear that Osprey is right in his points:
- FR, the setting which, I am sure, propelled the creation of 3.5e more than any other (especially with its billions of 1st-level, non-good rangers ^_^), was the source for the Red Wizard (Thay is on the Realms), and it does feature more than one other such prestige class: the War-Wizards of Cormyr, the Harper Scout/Mage/Priest, the Hathran, etc.
- How many of you have really noticed that the Eldritch Knight (especially if he has the spellcasting ability of a bard instead of a sorcerer/wizard to provide him with the requirements of the prestige class) is nothing more than a much more reasonable Blade-Singer, without the painful powers of the latter, but without having only elf-blooded being able to take it.
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11-08-2003, 01:30 AM #26
Actually, where can I suggest a new prestige class? Is the Royal Library OK?
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11-08-2003, 02:19 AM #27
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PrCls tend to be balanced, both against each other, and against the standard classes (the Mystic Theurge being an obvious exception)
Overall, the Mystic Theurge is very well balanced, sacrificing raw power for versatility. Depending on the party makeup, he's either significantly less useful or marginally more useful than a single-classed caster would be.
Actually, where can I suggest a new prestige class? Is the Royal Library OK?Jan E. Juvstad.
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11-08-2003, 05:27 AM #28
After some indiependent playtesting with a Cleric/Wizard of Ruornil, I have to agree with Mark - on all three points. A player of mine played a 10th level character: a Cleric 5/Wizard 5. And he was significantly weaker than most other 10th level characters. The Mystic Theurge, as Jan explained, is actually a decent balance of breadth of powers at the cost of "specialization" in arcane or divine magic (relative to a single class wizard or cleric, anyways). A "3 level penalty" is almost like getting a +3 ECL template for the mystic theurge advantages. Not a bad measure of its power, IMO.
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11-08-2003, 12:09 PM #29Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Nov 8 2003, 11:00 AM
Actually, where can I suggest a new prestige class? Is the Royal Library OK?Let me claim your Birthright!!
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11-09-2003, 12:45 AM #30
Thank you all for the directions! As a matter of fact, I checked some time ago on the Guilder prestige class presented in the Royal Library, and while it had an interesting concept, I found a number of incosistencies that really made me upset about the try. No offence meant but, please, check it out: 9 + Int skill points per level, an average BAB progression - which would be perfect, if not for the +4 at 5th level-, and effectively 2 bonus feats per level!
Anyway, as for the Mystic Theurge, you forgot something very important: a 5th-level Cleric/5th-level Wizard/10th-level Mystic Theurge would not be able to cast 9th level spells of any kind! Furthermore, the less restrictive Sorcerer variant will not be able to cast even 8th-level arcane spells!
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