Elves/dwarves & Rule Province

[ConjurerDragon]

The Jew schrieb:

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> The Jew wrote:

> The other thing that would be beneificial for an elven nation would be to hire units of

humans, either from an internal human population or from friendly human

regents able to raise

armies.



Or enslave the goblins (again) ;-)

Isn´t that what Tuarhievel is doing in the Rulebook by allying with

Dhoesone? Dhoesone has goblins from Thurazor and sidhelien from

Tuarhievel in it´s army together with the human core army.

bye

Michael

[The Jew]

Originally posted by ConjurerDragon@Oct 20 2003, 04:35 PM
Or enslave the goblins (again) ;-)

Ussually a bad idea to use slaves for an army, especially their is a chance that you could fight the same race in war.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by kgauck@Oct 19 2003, 08:53 PM
----- Original Message -----

From: "Raesene Andu" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:16 PM



> That wouldn`t make a lot of sense when looking at elven realms

> though (it may for dwarves) as their population levels certainly do

> not represent production or technology (it may represent social

> structure). Those sort of things tend to suggest industry and elves

> are not a race that would emprace industry of any form.



I`m really not thinking of production, I am thinking of the functioning and

effeciency of social institutions. Keep in mind that lowering province

levels effects the max levels of all types of holdings and effects regency

collection. What effect would it have if a fire broke out in a county

courthouse, destroying property records, geneologies, tax records, killing

the sheriff, and some minor judicial officials? Property transfers would be

cast into doubt, had you or had you not paid tax, &c. Until the facts of

the lost records were re-established or accepted by law, or otherwise

verified, the ability to the province to send its previous taxes, loyalty,

political effeciency, and so forth is comprimised.



One may still see such things as inappropriate to the sidhe if one regards

their social structure as being so primitive that it does not rely on

complex social institutions. Social complexity may be something unneccesary

to elves due to their long lives (less to keep track of and more time to

incorporate the record keeping as a memory).



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

This is real similar to the point I was making about efficiency. Elves (and dwarves) are generally more efficient in their productin thatn are humans. That is to say that an elven province with a relative high province rating is not necessicarily a reflection of the total population but an equivalent when compared to humans ones. Remember that humans are the standard reference for all races. So the elven province can produce goods &#39;as if it were a human province of equivalent level&#39; because the elves know ways of creating things more efficiently. They incorporate nature into what they do and don&#39;t go &#39;against the grain&#39; so they can create more things (or more specifically better valued things) than a human province witht the same population level.

Similar agruments could be applied to dwarves, except that it would be that they know better how to manage their environment as opposed to working with their environment like elves.

[Airgedok]

Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Oct 20 2003, 03:34 PM
The main problem with saying that the province level represents control over the population rather than actual population is that this breaks down when you are looking are very low level provinces.

If a province is ruled from level 0 to say level 3, this cannot be done by increasing control over the existing population because there isn&#39;t an existing population. This increase in level can only be done by bringing in a hell of a lot of settlers from somewhere.

Anyway, I was thinking of a similar system to the one you have proposed, limiting the number of times an elven or dwarven provinces can be ruled. Will have to try it out and see how it works.

Then you better make long lived elves and dwarves start at twice or 3 times ethe experience/level as humans. one doesnt live 200 to 2000 years and learn nothing. No human could ever be able to match the knowledge and experience as a 2000 year old individual. Oh sure games and fantasy like to create silly little excuses for there NOt being a huge gap like humans have greater drive or are more organised ect.. But people just cant really grasp just how long 2000 years is. Think at how far we have come in technology well imagine a person that learned for 2000 years they would be so knowledge able about things that we couldnt truely comprehend it. A professor who studies a given subject for 50 years would look like a toddler compared to a person who studdied that same subject for 150 to 200 years.

The idea that elves have no industry is a misconception. no one has indusrty&#33; This is an artisan level economy. Elves defenetly have artisans and the pop levels are more an indication of production than actual bodies. Its easier to explain things in terms of population than units of production. If you refuse to see that the populations levels are not accuate dipictions of accual population levels but rather abstract representations then no explination will satisfy you.

Populations levels DONT represent bodies in BR. A rather simple explination.

[Raesene Andu]

No matter if you consider the level of a province to be just population, or a combination of population and production, it is still also true that the main different between a level 1 province and a level 4 province is the population of the province. So therefore the only way you are going to get an increase in the level of a province is to get an increase in the population, which bring me back to my original question on birth rates of elves and dwarves.

And I&#39;ll leave the matter of immortallity vs. mortality for now. I have my own thoughts on that matter, but that is not what I&#39;m concerned about at the moment.

[kari]

can elfes age if thay wis to, as in Tolkin

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by kari@Oct 21 2003, 06:17 AM
can elfes age if thay wis to, as in Tolkin

No, they are immortal unless they go to the shadow world where they are mortal. See Shadow Spawn. This latter concept is one I especially find intriguing.

[ConjurerDragon]

irdeggman schrieb:

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>

> irdeggman wrote:

>

can elfes age if thay wis to, as in Tolkin

> No, they are immortal unless they go to the shadow world where they are mortal.

See Shadow Spawn. This latter concept is one I especially find

intriguing.



Mmmh, perhaps I understand his question different than you, but

he asked "can they age" and you said "no, they are immortal" (=can´t die).



I would say they are immortal and can´t die (except from violence) but

they can age but do not suffer/enjoy the benefits and penalties of the

age categories. Immortal <> Everyoung

bye

Michael

[geeman]

Michael Romes writes:



>>

can elfes age if thay wis to, as in

>> Tolkin

>> No, they are immortal unless they go to the shadow world where they are

>> mortal.

> See Shadow Spawn. This latter concept is one I especially find

> intriguing.

>

> Mmmh, perhaps I understand his question different than you, but

> he asked "can they age" and you said "no, they are immortal" (=can´t die).



It`s kind of a weird question that requires a bit of extrapolation.

Cerilians elves stop growing physically older at a certain point of

maturation (25-30?) which is a bit different from saying that they "are

immortal". The texts really mean "ever young" rather than truly immortal,

of course, since elves can die... at least physically. They may have an

immortal soul/spirit that reincarnates in a new body. At least, that seems

to be the most commonly accepted version of the elven version of life after

death.



It`s never positively stated that an elf can choose to grow older than 25-30

(or whatever point of physical maturation it is that they stop aging.)

That`s most likely because it`s a rather odd thing to need to point out. I

can`t think of a reason why anyone (elf or mortal) would choose to go much

past 30 if they had the option to stop aging.... I`d certainly have stopped

somewhere in the mid 20`s if it were up to me, and if I ever got tired of

life I`d just off myself and leave a nice pretty corpse rather than go

through the long and painstaking process of suicide by conscious decrepitude

that choosing to grow old would represent.



I suppose if someone really wanted to physically age but was ever young most

of the effects of aging can be replicated by excessive suntanning, calcium

deficiency and a lack of exercise... assuming they can`t just decide to age,

that is. But aside from a fetish for gray hair is there any reason why

someone would want to grow physically older if they needn`t?



Gary

[DanMcSorley]

Originally posted by geeman@Oct 21 2003, 07:09 PM
But aside from a fetish for gray hair is there any reason why someone would want to grow physically older if they needn`t?

Mmm, if said hypothetical elf had a fetish for gray hair, wouldn&#39;t they want whoever they were /dating/ to grow physically older? ;)