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  1. #11
    Senior Member blitzmacher's Avatar
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    That's where I agree with Andu and have the character spend some time at the college of sorcery, in which case who's going to run thier holdings?
    Cattle die and kinsmen die,
    thyself too soon must die,
    but one thing never, I ween, will die, --
    fair fame of one who has earned.
    HAVAMAL

  2. #12
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    Your Lieutenant or 2nd in command would run the holdings. If not they may all fall by the wayside and that would be the price you play for trying to become a wizard
    Lord Eldred
    High Councilor of the
    United Provinces of Cerilia
    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

  3. #13
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Actually, in the Adurian Setting I'm working on at the moment, I'll be dropping the wizard class altogether and replacing it with the Shadow Mage (who cast illusions, enchantment and necromantic spells). Wizards will only be found in the north near Anuire, where the old Anuirean empire conquered and settled several realms. In the old empires and further south, there are only sorcerers, magicians and shadow mages.

    As for battle/realm magic. Wizards and Shadow Mages are unrestricted in the number of realm and battle spells they can learn or create, magicians can't cast any, not even those from the illusion school. Their link to the Mebhaighl is just not strong enough to access the more powerful battle magic. And sorcerers will be able to cast a limited number. In my opinion, the sorcerer class has a link to the magic of the land as strong or stronger than that of a wizard, so there is no reason why they can't cast these spells.

    Basically, what I will be doing for sorcerers is allowing them to select one battle/realm spell every time they advance a level. This spell has to be one they can cast, and it can be a new spell of their own design. As a result a 5th level wizard/shadow mage can cast as many realm and battle spells as he wants to learn, while a 5th level sorcerer is limited to a choice of only 5 battle or realm spell. They will even themselves out as you reach higher levels. A 20th level sorcerer with 20 battle or realm spells is propably just as powerful as a wizard of the same level, but at low levels a wizard is a little more powerful.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  4. #14
    Special Guest (Donor) morgramen's Avatar
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    Nice ideas Ian!

    In my concept of Aduria, I had also not included wizards in the mind sketch. I had used sorcerors primarily, and a multiclassed sorceror/priest type (maybe some sort of new class, or a prestige class of sorts).

    I had played with the idea that the realm spells of Aduria were inheritly different from those cast in Anuire, and that the 'bond'; between wizzie and mebhaigle was tainted by Azrai's grasp (Ala Robert Jordan). This causes the land to suffer in some way whenever a realm spell is cast (ala Darksun). I'm still pondering this concept though, and have to iron out a few wrinkles.
    "You need people of intelligence on this mission... quest... thing."

  5. #15
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    Interesting concepts! Andu, I am interested in why you decided to devide things up the way you did with having wizards only in one location and shadow mages as you move out.

    I like morgramen's explanation of what he did with Anduria and Anuire.

    What do your players think of these changes?
    Lord Eldred
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    United Provinces of Cerilia
    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

  6. #16
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Well to explain it really simply, without going into all the detail I will use in the final product, Aduria originally had only the two forms of magic, sorcery (used by dragons and their kin) and lesser magic (used by humans, turan, and other younger races).

    Then one day along came Azrai and in his rise to dominence in Aduria, he taught the ancient Vos magicians how to use true magic, but unlike the magic of the elves, the magic taught by Azrai drew on the dark forces of the shadow world, unstead of the energy of Mebhaighl. To harness this new power, the 12 sorcerers who came to follow Azrai were given a portion of his power (effectivly a bloodline). Being humans, they based their new spells on the magicians spells (so were effectivly wizards, but only drew on the powers of darkness, or necromancy, illusion and enchantment).

    However, they were not the only humans to cast this new magic, just the first and most powerful, the closest to Azrai.
    One of these sorcerers, Xalin, created an artifact called the shadow stone, a simple enough device, that allowed the holder to drain the life force of a being and use it to power his magic (effectivly, 1 life drained = 1 spell level able to cast). This artefact was copied and used by power-hungry magicans to power spells of the new shadow magic. So it was that shadow magic came to be seen as the only form of true magic availble to humans.

    Then, after Deismaar, more humans in Aduria now had bloodlines, so they could either choose to follow darkness and become Shadow Mages, or strike out on their own and become sorcerers. But in Cerilia, humans who learned magic from the elves based their new magic on the elven teachings and created true magic, which drew on Mebhaighl, not Awnmebhaighl (the magic of the shadow world). And as Anuire grew in power, the conquered the northern reaches of Aduria, as well as the ancient coastal land of Subriya and with their armies came wizards, thus in the northlands and Subriya, humans today learn true magic and become wizard, while in the other realms they become sorcerers and shadow mages.

    While it is possible that there would be some cross-over between the regions, there are significant political and geographical divides that mean few people of the south and west mix with the northern lands.


    As for the differences between the two forms of magic, there are few. A shadow mage draws on different spells than a wizard, but realm magic and battle magic are uneffected, although I may add some rule about the use of shadow magic breaking down the barriers between the worlds, and causing the shadow world to creep closer in provinces were a shadow mages casts realm magic.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  7. #17
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    I think you should make the two worlds collide where there are shadow mages. It would make for great adventures trying to severe the ties because of the dangers that come out of the shadow world. Let me know what you decide. I am interesting in hearing about it.
    Lord Eldred
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    United Provinces of Cerilia
    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

  8. #18
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    I read one conversion book that said that to cast a realm spell you have to have a feat that allows you to cast a realm spell "realm spellcasting" feat.

    I dont know if that is a good idea. Havent had to use it still because there are no wisards in my campaign...yet.

  9. #19
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    I am not sure that fits totally. You have to be a true wizard to cast realm magic. If you take the feat does that mean your a true wizard? I do like the idea of another hurdle a multiclass character would have to jump over to cast the spell however.
    Lord Eldred
    High Councilor of the
    United Provinces of Cerilia
    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

  10. #20
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    First I would like to say, I love the Shadow Mage idea! Second bear in mind NONE of the human NPC's in Birthright is multiclassed. It would be a monumental task to change even a handful all of them and in my opinion, it would only be fair to do that if you ALLOWED players to multiclass. I think that just because 3E rulebooks allow for simpler multiclassing, it doesn't mean it should be permissable in Birthright. Unless the PC's are, dare I say it, demihuman. Humans aren't as long lived as most demihumans. So being mulitclassed would take a lot of time and dedication that humans simply don't have. Elves on the other hand can be Fighter/Mages etc because they live a very long time and have the time to focus on more than one discipline of study. But if you do indeed allow humans to multiclass, realm spells should not be permissable as they are long involved spells that the player may not have time to learn properly. Leave the True Wizardry to single classes who show their single-minded devotion to their craft.

    Leland

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