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  1. #21
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    void schrieb:

    > This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=36&t=2006

    >

    > void wrote:

    > I like the idea that creating magic items takes 1rp in addition to the regular costs. Since

    there are only a handful of true wizards, this would explain the

    rarity of magic items from the

    arcane point of view, but Anuire is lousy with blooded clerics, so I

    don`t see why there isnt

    actually a plethora of magic items in Birthright. Since there are

    lots of militant religions,

    you`d think the clerics would be pumping them out to give their side

    the advantage.



    That was partly prevented due to the limitations of 2E priests and their

    spheres of no/minor/major access.



    With the generic 3E Clerics (+2 domains) where all Clerics know all

    "Clr" spells it is only limited by having to know the approbiate feats.

    Clerics have less feats than wizards, so that is a little limitation.

    But limiting knowledge of spells would be better in my opinion.

    Hey - why not allow only creation of magic items by clerics that know

    the approbiate spell from their DOMAIN spell list? ;-)

    bye

    Michael

  2. #22
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    Originally posted by The Jew@Oct 12 2003, 06:38 PM
    from airgedok
    >If you make lots of items you could be two or even three levels behind your >party members and thats 1 or two spell levels. the differance from being able >to cast 5th level spells at 10th level or 7th level spells at 13th level.

    I think you are taking a little to extreme a view of magic item creation. To begin with, the experience lost from from magic item creation to be 10th rather than 13th level would be 33,000. That is enough to make 825,000 gp worth of items. By the book, a 13th level character has 110,000 gp worth of equipment. I think that level of creation would be rare, but might actually be worth it if a magic user wanted to try. A more realistic example would be a 13th level magic user spending 6,000 experience to create 150,000 gp worth of items. They might sell off 50,000 of it to help cover the cost of creation, which explains the number of swords and armour, along with the fact that clerics fight with swords and armour and can of course create them. To put it into perspective lets see what a wizard could make with that remaining 100,000 gp:

    robe of protection +2
    amulet of natural armour +2
    cloak of resistance +3
    +4 to intelligence
    +2 constitution
    +2 dexterity
    +10 administrate
    +5 know (arcana)
    +5 spellcraft
    +5 concentration
    +10 warcraft
    bag of holding II
    circlet of persuasion
    boots of speed

    This is by 3.5e prices and only requires the wonderous item feat. I personally think it would be well worth it and lead to magic items being more common.
    i was trying to show that it would be hugely expensive to outfit a party. Not an individual. I did try to point out that specific items that wizard could benifit would be more common simple because the idea of giving up personal power for things a wizard could is far easier to "swallow" than giving up your personal power to equip your party or someother guy.

    I have found that party members can be extremely greedy for magic items and that they will ask and argue till they are blue in the face for just how much it is worth it to supply them with their "needed" items.

    I find that teh current system does very much create a limited magic enviorment. It doesnt eliminate magic item creation but it does explain why not every Wizard/cleric isnt outfitting their party with uber items.

    I have yet to run a game or been in a game where item creation happened other then scrolls and even then it was rare. Simply because the 2 groups that I have delt with in the past few years didnt want to pay the xp costs. i could be the minority but I still find xp cost to be a natural limiting factor.

  3. #23
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    Originally posted by ConjurerDragon@Oct 12 2003, 07:29 PM
    void schrieb:

    > This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php...36&t=2006<br />
    >

    > void wrote:

    > I like the idea that creating magic items takes 1rp in addition to the regular costs. Since

    there are only a handful of true wizards, this would explain the

    rarity of magic items from the

    arcane point of view, but Anuire is lousy with blooded clerics, so I

    don`t see why there isnt

    actually a plethora of magic items in Birthright. Since there are

    lots of militant religions,

    you`d think the clerics would be pumping them out to give their side

    the advantage.



    That was partly prevented due to the limitations of 2E priests and their

    spheres of no/minor/major access.



    With the generic 3E Clerics (+2 domains) where all Clerics know all

    "Clr" spells it is only limited by having to know the approbiate feats.

    Clerics have less feats than wizards, so that is a little limitation.

    But limiting knowledge of spells would be better in my opinion.

    Hey - why not allow only creation of magic items by clerics that know

    the approbiate spell from their DOMAIN spell list? ;-)

    bye

    Michael












    Are all the spell prereqs for clerics covered by the domain spell lists?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Hey - why not allow only creation of magic items by clerics that know
    the approbiate spell from their DOMAIN spell list? ;-)
    bye
    Michael
    Magical weapons and armor with enhancement bonuses don&#39;t require any spells as prerequisites, just levels (bonusx3 min.).

  5. #25
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    I haven`t really followed this thread, but hey I`m a person too!



    Having experimented a bit with various house rules regarding magic item creation in BR, I have come up with several ideas:



    - If you want to limit magic item creation, require BOTH XP and RP to be spent. There have been substitution ideas, but this one is new I think. It drastically cuts down on the number of spellcasters who can make items, but doesn`t free them from XP constraintes.



    - You could ease this restriction by allowing some "lesser magic" or some such to be created w/o RO, but personally I`d say no to that too.



    Cheers

    Bjørn



    Cheers

    Bjørn



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    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  6. #26
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by The Green Knight@Oct 13 2003, 11:20 AM
    I haven`t really followed this thread, but hey I`m a person too&#33;



    Having experimented a bit with various house rules regarding magic item creation in BR, I have come up with several ideas:



    - If you want to limit magic item creation, require BOTH XP and RP to be spent. There have been substitution ideas, but this one is new I think. It drastically cuts down on the number of spellcasters who can make items, but doesn`t free them from XP constraintes.



    - You could ease this restriction by allowing some "lesser magic" or some such to be created w/o RO, but personally I`d say no to that too.



    Cheers

    Bjørn



    Cheers

    Bjørn



    -------------------------------------------------

    WebMail fra Tele2 http://www.tele2.no<br />
    -------------------------------------------------












    So by requiring RP to be spent, a magician can not create a scroll?
    Duane Eggert

  7. #27
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Aye, irdeggman&#39;s point is well taken. I think scrolls and potions, as expendable, single-use items, should qualify as "minor" magic items, and be creatable by any spellcaster with the proper item creation feats.

    The second option would be to label minor items as any items under a certain gp value. That value might be 1000, 5000, or even 10,000 gp, depending on the level of minor magic items you want in your campaign world. At 10,000 gp value, magicians and non-blooded clerics (+bards, pailidins, and rangers, concievably, though it&#39;s unlikely) could craft some wands (L1-2 spells only), a few minor rings, and the lower tier (minor, lesser medium) wondrous items, weapons of up to +2 enhancement, and armor of up to +3 enhancement. Rods, staves, and higher levels of the above items would be limited to scion articifers only.

  8. #28
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

    Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:54 AM





    > So by requiring RP to be spent, a magician can not create a scroll



    Do those looking to slow down magic item creation also want to include

    one-shot spell storage devices? Or, are we talking about permenent or

    multi-shot only?



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  9. #29
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    Originally posted by kgauck@Oct 14 2003, 10:11 PM
    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

    Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:54 AM





    > So by requiring RP to be spent, a magician can not create a scroll



    Do those looking to slow down magic item creation also want to include

    one-shot spell storage devices? Or, are we talking about permenent or

    multi-shot only?



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

    Thats a good point. Are scrolls considered magic items by most people when the talk about magic items. While they maybe technicly magic items do people view them as such? I know as a player i view scrolls a seperate from magic items sort of their own special catagory. The same with potions but to most other people?

    Are potions and scolls more rare in a magicly poor world?

    I do like in princible the added cost of regency as well as gold and XP.

  10. #30
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    IMO creating magical items is expensive enough (exeptionally if you include the XP costs), further you need feats that are spend better as "General" or "Metamagic". Making the item creation even more expensive is not the right way...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

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