New Class Options

[The Jew]

from osprey
>Why add clerical spells, by the way? And consider that l>imiting the spell lists too much might preclude the >creation of a number of magical items. I think it already >balances by the fact that the runemaster has a very >limited method of transferring the magic - through runes >alone.

The limits on the spells were because of ones that would not function as touch spells. Conjuration and evocation are almost entirely schools whose spells have a long distance or are created out of thin air. Certainly most spells that could be delivered by touch should be kept. I suggested nixing necromancy since it tends to be an evil schools and the dwarves are a good race. I know very little about 2e BR, what are peoples feelings on that school?
The addition of clerics spells, is to help strengthen the class, but would mostly be restricted to spells that effect stone or metal or are rune based. Examples:

magic stone, align weapon, make whole, glyph of warding, magic vestment, meld into stone, stone shape.

We would of course have to careful about restricting wizard spells that are useful for creating magic items, and be generous with cleric spells for the the same reason.

I agree with a d6 hit die. I was just raising it since a runemaster would be less of a bookworm and more of a craftman than a traditional wizard. They would also be in much more danger in combat since their spells are touch attacks.
It would also need a better attack bonus. Either a clerics or maybe even a fighters, since all of its attacks are touched base.
In a party this class would act as more of support for other party members, like a bard, rather than going after the enemies.

[geeman]

Airgedok writes:



>An elf that was raise in a human temple could very well become a

>priest to a human god if such an elf desired to worship the god

>of its "parents" and the god wanted to accept teh elf

>as its servant.



While I agree with the above interpretation I think it should be noted that

in the original materials the language is somewhat vague on whether an elf

could actually take levels in a priestly class. There is text in some of

the supplements to support that interpretation, but it really just says that

a elves are free to worship gods if they choose to do so as a sort of "don`t

ask, don`t tell" policy in the elven culture, but that doesn`t really mean

that an elf can take levels as a cleric or priest.



Gary

[ConjurerDragon]

Gary Foss schrieb:

> Airgedok writes:

>> An elf that was raise in a human temple could very well become a

>> priest to a human god if such an elf desired to worship the god

>> of its "parents" and the god wanted to accept teh elf

>> as its servant.

> While I agree with the above interpretation I think it should be noted that

> in the original materials the language is somewhat vague on whether an elf

> could actually take levels in a priestly class. There is text in some of

> the supplements to support that interpretation, but it really just says

> that

> a elves are free to worship gods if they choose to do so as a sort of

> "don`t

> ask, don`t tell" policy in the elven culture, but that doesn`t really mean

> that an elf can take levels as a cleric or priest.

> Gary



If an sidhelien really believes in a god and therefore choses not only

to worship this god but to become a cleric of that god - how can he stay

among his own people remaining silent about his god?



Spreading the word about your god is one of the dutys of most priests

and the elf would be in a constant contradiction between his dutys to

his new god and his people.



So an elf who worships a god - silently is one thing in elven realms.

But elven clerics can´t exist in elven realms in my opinion.

bye

Michael

[Green Knight]

Personally, I don`t like this approach. It`s too much

"humans-with-pointy-ears". I like the sidhe enigmatic and ALIEN. IMC,

they`re not human, hell they`re not even humanoid.



Maybe they are incapable of worship on a metaphysical level (maybe they

lack a soul or whatever, and that`s a worship requirement) or maybe

they`re simply so different that the god-worshipper relationship simply

holds no meaning.



Of course, there are always exceptions to every rule. I had an elf once,

which (in a bad case of Tolkienesque DMing) renounced his heritage and

became mortal in order to worship Nesirie, Lady of Grief and Mourning.



Cheers

Bjørn



-----Original Message-----

From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion

[mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Michael Romes

Sent: 13. oktober 2003 20:49

To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM

Subject: Re: New Class Options [36#2000]



Gary Foss schrieb:

> Airgedok writes:

>> An elf that was raise in a human temple could very well become a

>> priest to a human god if such an elf desired to worship the god

>> of its "parents" and the god wanted to accept teh elf

>> as its servant.

> While I agree with the above interpretation I think it should be noted

that

> in the original materials the language is somewhat vague on whether an

elf

> could actually take levels in a priestly class. There is text in some

of

> the supplements to support that interpretation, but it really just

says

> that

> a elves are free to worship gods if they choose to do so as a sort of

> "don`t

> ask, don`t tell" policy in the elven culture, but that doesn`t really

mean

> that an elf can take levels as a cleric or priest.

> Gary



If an sidhelien really believes in a god and therefore choses not only

to worship this god but to become a cleric of that god - how can he stay

among his own people remaining silent about his god?



Spreading the word about your god is one of the dutys of most priests

and the elf would be in a constant contradiction between his dutys to

his new god and his people.



So an elf who worships a god - silently is one thing in elven realms.

But elven clerics can´t exist in elven realms in my opinion.

bye

Michael



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[destowe]

It seems that what you would like is to use the bard class as a base point.

Myabe change the Reflex save to give good Will and Fort saves. The base attack/hp/skill points are good, but the skills need some changing.

For a suggestion of spells I would look into the 2nd edition of Skills and Powers that dealt with Magic. There were 2 related schools, but I forget the names. As the bard was only sound, one was writing and the other was items.

[Osprey]

Unfirtunately, bards' limited selection of spells doesn't work too well for the runemaster concept. Wizards' formulaic approach to magic still seems like the way to go to me.

[geeman]

Michael Romes writes:



> If an sidhelien really believes in a god and therefore choses not only

> to worship this god but to become a cleric of that god - how can he stay

> among his own people remaining silent about his god?

>

> Spreading the word about your god is one of the dutys of most priests

> and the elf would be in a constant contradiction between his dutys to

> his new god and his people.

>

> So an elf who worships a god - silently is one thing in elven realms.

> But elven clerics can´t exist in elven realms in my opinion.



I think it`s entirely possible to be a sort of low-key, non-denominational,

relaxed kind of theologian (though such folks might be in remarkably short

supply in the real world. Levels in such classes might be used to reflect a

personal, internalized faith based more on a system of reflection and

worldly attitudes rather than actual conversions and efforts at "spreading

the word" as it were. Monks of a sect or other brotherly orders would

qualify as priests, though they might never deliver a sermon.



Heck, I got "Internet ordained" so I could officiate a wedding a few months

back--an experience I highly recommend (officiating, that is, not

marriage--but whatever floats your boat) and there`s more than a few people

for whom I hope someday to deliver the last rites.... I don`t think that

really makes me a cleric in D&D terms, of course, but neither necessarily

does taking levels as a cleric make one a priest in real life terms either.

Some people who may have taken levels in such a class may never have

performed any ritualistic services at the head of a congregation.



I think the elven "don`t ask, don`t tell" policy is a fairly good

justification for not allowing any elf to ever take actual levels in a

cleric/druid class in that it is kind of part of the role of such a person

to preach. At least, it would make it pretty difficult to take on such

levels while in elven lands, especially for a character reared amongst

elves.



On the other hand, it doesn`t say such an elf CAN`T preach. He or she will

just get into trouble for doing so, and could face repercussions--which is

pretty close to the definition of martyrdom for most religious folks. Maybe

such actions would be the kind of thing that would attract the attention of

the GS, and lead to being hunted, cast off, exiled, etc. for such a

character? In the long run it might turn out to be a cool campaign hook for

a homebrew--which is not to say that I want to see it in the core BR

materials. I think such a thing should be left to "DM fiat" rather than

made a standard for the setting.



Gary

[RaspK_FOG]

Err, if I am not mistaken, the current Playtester BRCS has no rule for Sidhelien being unable to become clerics. Anyway...


As for new ideas for classes, I am here with a few ideas I picked up from The Wheel of Time! First of all, one could easilly adopt the mid-step base save concept that the people who wrote the aforementioned book introduced.

In D&D, both 3e and 3.5e, the standard advancement rules for base saves includes two progressions: High and Low, meaning a base of (1/2 * Class Level + 2) and (1/3 * Class Level) respectively... I was checking my copy of the book and noticed (I was that dense) that there was a third advancement, which I call Average. By making the appropriate calculations, I noticed the progression is (2/5 * Class Level + 6/5). Here it is in table format:

Level * * Base Save Bonus
1 * * ** * *+1
2 * * ** * *+2
3 * * * * * *+2
4 * * ** * *+2
5 * * * * * *+3
6 * * ** * *+3
7 * * ** * *+4
8 * * ** * *+4
9 * * ** * *+4
10 * * * * *+5
11 * * * * *+5
12 * * * * *+6
13 * * * * *+6
14 * * * * *+6
15 * * * * *+7
16 * * * * *+7
17 * * * * *+8
18 * * * * *+8
19 * * * * *+8
20 * * * * *+9

Another idea would be to use the defence statistic; each class has a defence statistic, which represents its ease at defence. The statistic does not stack with armour and shield bonuses (the higher bonus is what makes it to the character's Defence, the equivalent of Armour Class), except for Armsmen, who have the lower Defence progression along with a few other classes, but their own defence stacks with armour and shield bonuses. Characters who multiclass have their total bonus reduced by 2 (something I apply myself to the total for High Base Saves; for Average saves, I reduce the total only by 1).

The Defence bonus progressions are the same as the ones assigned to saves (High, Low, and Average for those who allow it) + 2.


I happen to like both ideas, but they are little hard to assign in some cases... Oh well, more about that tomorrow! ^_^

[Osprey]

Concerning Runemasters: I would propose that rune spells aren't entirely limited by touch. While it's a good basis, I think what's important is that the runic inscription is always the source of magic. For example, emanation effects (like detect magic) and protective magics (mage armor, fire shield, etc.) might be very appropriate for rune spells.

However, what I would curb is the idea that you could have runic "ray guns" that could shoot lightning bolts or cones of cold. However, using a rune-inscribed sword with a Lightning Rune might create a Shocking Burst type of effect, or even act much like a spell-storing weapon and actually deliver the full spell on release (i.e., deliver a 10d6 lightning bolt if it has a 10th level rune on the sword). On the other hand, this could get pretty powerful if such weapons could be used by anyone...

Ugh, still no clean system...

[RaspK_FOG]

You could always consider allowing a converted form of Dragon's new Arcane Strike feat, which effectively adds a +2 bonus to attack rolls and +1d6 points of damage per level of a spell you "burn up". Like with other similar feats you must make an attack right after the wasting of the spell, and the maximum bonus to attack you can thus achieve is +12 to attack and +6d6 to damage (6th-level spells; if you waster higher-level spells, you still get the same bonuses). I suggest the class acquires the ability at 8th level (the prerequisites for the feat were the ability to cast arcane spells, plus a +4 base attack bonus).

Suggestions for the Runecaster class:
______________________________

Hit Die: d6.
Base Attack Bonus: Low.
Base Save Bonuses: Will High.

Inscribe Rune at 1st level; allows you to craft a magical item that can be used (crumbled to dust) to invoke its power. Effects with Touch or Personal ranges allowed, as well as area effects: Line becomes 5-feet burst for every 30 feet of length, Cone becomes 5-feet burst for every 15 feet of length, while circle burst effects are left as they are. Range increment for area effects: 10 feet.