Rangers As Arcane Spellcasters

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----

From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:44 PM





> In Birthright a non-spell casting ranger would eliminate the deity

> inspired aspect of the divine spells in Birthright and reduce the

> inherent conflict with the basic Birthright premise that all druids

> gain their spells from Erik (i.e., not nature itself).



I have a non-spellcasting "hunter" in my campaign. He represents someone

who is simply skilled at outdoor living. I have also retained the old

spellcasting ranger as the paladin of Erik, but such a class is rare (as

paladins typically are) and is required to act like a druid (as I require

all paladins to conduct themselves as clerics).



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[Airgedok]

I think part of the problem is that the standard magic system has been as follows, for 2e AD&D and 3x Editions.

The magic is based on three groups 2 are a subset of divine in the standard rules.
Arcane magic - wizardry
divine magic which was a compnent of power channeled from teh gods and magic from nature

Birthright magic is broken up in only 2 groups of magic

Nature magic = arcane
and divine magic = magic from the gods

The grey area is when you try to place the two nature magic users from the standard magic system the ranger and the druid into the birthright magic system.

Druids are clerics of teh nature god. But rangers are really arcane magic users when you look at the sources of magic in teh birthright setting.

Arcane magic users in cerilian as nature spell casters but unfortunetly this is in direct opposition to teh standard rule set. So things like if magic is nature based for divine as in directly channelled from the gods should the rules and spells be changed to reflect this? Should Rangers have to worry about armour? Should Wizards have to worry about armour? Is there actually any arcane magic in the birthright system? Or rather Wizards and bards are actually a subgroup of divine spell casters under the standard rule set since they gaine their magic from nature which is part of teh divine magic subset and are not arcane magic users.

I think that its easier to view them as nature spell caster and change their arcane spell failure rules to that of when wearing organic armour they have no spell failure but they incure full spell failure for inorganic armour. So any arcane spell caster in cerilian could wear cloth,leather, studded leather and hide with no worry of arcane spell failure but has to worry about spellfailure with metal amrours. So armour treaded with iron wood would be considered to be organic as well. This would place rangers in the arcane spell user catagory and under the above rules and Druids fall under dive magic users but because they worship the nature god they have access to nature like spells. To simulate teh arcane or rather naure powered spells that bards and wizards/sorcerers have you would need to add nature spells to teh classic arcanes spell users and perhaps teh elves could get elf specific spells that other non evles cant use much like nonbloodeds cant be wizards that conection goes slightly further to show that elves have an even greater conection to nature.

If this is adopted then some non traditional druid spells should be given to druids to show that they are given their power from not nature but divine connection. Traditional clerical spells could and should be given to druids to show their conection to diven power not nature&#39;s power. Because even though druids in the standard rules are nature spell casters its clear that they are not in cerilia. Cerilian druids only have their conection to nature because teh worship the nature diety and therefor it begs teh question if they should be able to use source relms. The may be intune with nature THROUGH their nature diety but nature itself doesnt power their abilities or their spells like the classic druid. And as such perhaps their armour restrictions should be lifted as well.

What the end result is you get bards,wizard and sorcerers that behave and have powers closer to the druid and druids that behave and have powers closer to the cleric. Which I belive is in the spirit to the magic system that was created for birthright. Sure rangers are now arcane spell users but the spirit of teh natured power ranger isnt effected. But teh traditional druid is changed consierably but that coinsides with the idea that they are a order of clerics under a diety and not an indepentant order of nature worshipers/guardians not under divine direction. The radical change of the tradition arcane spell casters should coinside with changes to the nature of thier spells and teh nature of their spells being effected by armour, or at least it should be considered.

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----

From: "Airgedok" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 2:22 AM





> Nature magic = arcane



I don`t buy this portion of the premice any more than I would buy the notion

that arcane magic is natural magic in any other campaign. It is by its very

exclsuivity supernatural. Nature as a force has nothing to do with magic as

a force. Both happen to be coincident in the land, which is also the

resevoir for other forces as well.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[RaspK_FOG]

Osprey, I would be glad to take a peek at your work&#33;

Generally, I have to agree with your main ideas as well: druids are able to tap on the power of nature, but not ley lines, yet rangers cannot. B)

[Osprey]

Druids are clerics of teh nature god. But rangers are really arcane magic users when you look at the sources of magic in teh birthright setting.

In original AD&D, rangers cast low-level magic-user spells...and thus were arcane casters.

As for the Huntsman, he is awaiting a 3.5 conversion, so it might be a little while...but he&#39;ll be posted at some point.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by kgauck@Oct 12 2003, 04:58 AM
----- Original Message -----

From: "Airgedok" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 2:22 AM





> Nature magic = arcane



I don`t buy this portion of the premice any more than I would buy the notion

that arcane magic is natural magic in any other campaign. It is by its very

exclsuivity supernatural. Nature as a force has nothing to do with magic as

a force. Both happen to be coincident in the land, which is also the

resevoir for other forces as well.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

I have agree with Kenneth on this one. I think there is confusion between nature and arcane magic. Realm arcane magic requires a pretty prestine natural surrounding, but this doesn&#39;t necessarily create a correlary between the two.

IMO the mechanics reason for the connection between the state of the land and the realm arcane spells is that in general, the arcane realm spells affect the land.

The divine ones can be viewed as having more of an effect on the populace, for example bless land could be interpreted as the people now work harder to yield greater benefits.

[Ksaturn]

I would say that Divine Magic comes from the people and is channelled by Deities (and thier blood). Arcane Magic is the power of the earth. Nature as a concept is held differently... i.e. the spell lists & abilities of the druid/ranger are based more on living things than the raw power of the elements, Though they do touch that. Rouronil Clerics have powers similair to magicians, much as Erik Druids have similair powers to clerics. Thier magic seems to be drawn more from the plants and aniamls and such rather than the &#39;land&#39;