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Thread: Roads in Anuire

  1. #1
    Every game or PbeM has a different set of roads to support trade in Anuire and of course the RoE only gives us hints of where the roads should be. It would be nice if a well thought out road map was presented..... Perhaps in the atlas or somewhere else. I would be interested in knowing what roads people think might be out there?



    I only know for sure of the Old Imperial Stonebryn road which hugs the Stonebryn river on the Mhoried side and passes up through the Gates of Doom and into the North.



    There is also the road constructed in Taliene recently by the Thane.....



    If the topic generates enough thought, I will post a map up on the web with the proposed roads.



    Randy ~ Eosin the Red
    Hello, I guess I gotta have a sig.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    I would guess that most currently maintained roads are based on existing trade routes. So figure out where the existing overland trade routes are, and you can pinpoint most of the roads in Cerilia.

    I know the Imperial City has several trade routes going in and out of it (as it depends upon these to sustain itself). Moerele Lannaman (Maesil Shippers) has a guild(1) there, and Guilder Kalien has a guild(2) there. If Lannaman has one route, I would guess it runs all the way from Bevaldruor in Mhoried to the Imperial City. Of course, you could reason that Kalien ships grain and foodstuffs from Endier to the Imperial City, too, making for a much shorter road. (I would consider an urban province to be a different terrain type from open terrain, thus enabling trade routes between the two types. It makes sense, considering that agricultural goods would be the highest demand import).

    So there at least is a road from Endier to the City of Anuire. I would simply call it the Maesil Trade Road, or even the Great Trade Road, as the Maesil must be the central trade artery of Anuire, and the roads would probably be necessary to travel upstream with any efficiency, or at least to drag barges upriver. I imagine that historically such a road probably did run the entire length of the Maesil, but it's quite possible parts of it have fallen into disrepair and aren't usable as a full highway (though still a minor road, in all likelihood).

    I think there are likely roads heading east and west from the I.C. as well. Darien Avan undoubtedly has a road from Daulton to the City of Anuire (and PAI probably runs trade route #2 there). Ruins of Empire suggested that Hierl Diem controlled the eastern approaches to the City and could cut off trade, suggesting trade route #3 runs east through Ciliene. However, the Maesil Road could simply run along the western border of Ciliene and north to Moere and Endier (both of which are dominated by GK's guilds). This would leave trade route #3 open to being a naval trade route, as it must be assumed that the City of Anuire has a seaport.

    Besides, it's more strategically viable (as Dossiere is no doubt aware) to have one route each from a different source, making siege that much more difficult (and requiring a naval blockade in addition to holding Ciliene and Anuire to cut off trade to the city).

    Well, there's a start to our Anuirean road map.

    -Osprey

  3. #3
    Ospery Wrote:

    >>> I know the Imperial City has several trade routes going in and out of

    it (as it depends upon these to sustain itself). Moerele Lannaman (Maesil

    Shippers) has a guild(1) there, and Guilder Kalien has a guild(2) there. If

    Lannaman has one route, I would guess it runs all the way from Bevaldruor in

    Mhoried to the Imperial City. Of course, you could reason that Kalien ships

    grain and foodstuffs from Endier to the Imperial City, too, making for a

    much shorter road. (I would consider an urban province to be a different

    terrain type from open terrain, thus enabling trade routes between the two

    types. It makes sense, considering that agricultural goods would be the

    highest demand import).



    > So there at least is a road from Endier to the City of Anuire. I would

    simply call it the Maesil Trade Road, or even the Great Trade Road, as the

    Maesil must be the central trade artery of Anuire, and the roads would

    probably be necessary to travel upstream with any efficiency, or at least to

    drag barges upriver. I imagine that historically such a road probably did

    run the entire length of the Maesil, but it`s quite possible parts of it

    have fallen into disrepair and aren`t usable as a full highway (though still

    a minor road, in all likelihood).



    I think there is a road (and mentioned in the Falcon and the Wolf) that runs

    along the Maesil in Alamie to Maesford and then probably has a ferry to

    shuttle goods back and forth.



    The Spiders test mentions nothing about a road running through modern Endier

    but Moerel to IC seems logical and doubtless they have extended that road

    into Endier. So, the question would be did they extend it into Ghoere or

    does Ghoere use the Maesil as it`s highway into the IC?



    There is not a way to cross from Ghoere to Mhoried north of

    Riumache....according to the Falcon and The Wolf.







    > I think there are likely roads heading east and west from the I.C. as

    well. Darien Avan undoubtedly has a road from Daulton to the City of Anuire

    (and PAI probably runs trade route #2 there). Ruins of Empire suggested

    that Hierl Diem controlled the eastern approaches to the City and could cut

    off trade, suggesting trade route #3 runs east through Ciliene. However,

    the Maesil Road could simply run along the western border of Ciliene and

    north to Moere and Endier (both of which are dominated by GK`s guilds).

    This would leave trade route #3 open to being a naval trade route, as it

    must be assumed that the City of Anuire has a seaport.

    >

    > Besides, it`s more strategically viable (as Dossiere is no doubt aware)

    to have one route each from a different source, making siege that much more

    difficult (and requiring a naval blockade in addition to holding Ciliene and

    Anuire to cut off trade to the city).



    The Iron Throne mentions a string of castles protecting Boeruine from Avan

    and Michael Roele running through Taeghas. The Brosien Pass looks to be

    ideal for an Imperial Highway but would it still be around? There is

    speculation that Taeghas and Brosengae were once united (that is how

    Brosengae ended as a duchy when Taeghas started as one).



    Would a road trade road run from Caercas to Fairfield then onto Bhalene and

    then into Mhoried (via Tornilen -> Riumache)? SRT is said to do some

    business with Shieldhaven.



    Eosin
    Hello, I guess I gotta have a sig.

  4. #4
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    In the Ruins of Empire DW has a few trade routes listed. I believe one to the Sielwood and the other to Coeranys.

    Perhaps these are underground tunnels (a specialty holding?) or the elves have a road in their land.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    In the Ruins of Empire DW has a few trade routes listed. I believe one to the Sielwood and the other to Coeranys.

    Perhaps these are underground tunnels (a specialty holding?) or the elves have a road in their land.
    Right...I always assumed the dwarven-elven route was an overland (not underground) road from the Sielwode to Baruk-Azhik. And another road would run down to Coeranys (to the capital? - it seems likely).

    The Spiders test mentions nothing about a road running through modern Endier
    but Moerel to IC seems logical and doubtless they have extended that road
    into Endier. So, the question would be did they extend it into Ghoere or
    does Ghoere use the Maesil as it`s highway into the IC?
    I figured the trade route was to Endier rather than Moere because Kalien would want to extend trade routes from his capital (where he has a monopoly and level 6 guild) to maximize profits.

    It's important to note that Highways are major roads, while minor roads are assumed to be running through most developed (3+) provinces. There are only 2 practical reasons to build highways: to allow for overland trade, and for the rapid movement of armies. I've always imagined that most landed regents would encourage guildsmen to build and maintain highways and trade routes for the side benefit of trade tarrifs and rapid military deployment. So I lean toward the idea that highways are actually quite numerous throughout the developed areas of Anuire.

    The original description of Travel for scions of Brenna mentions that roads connect just about every province in Anuire. It's safe to assume this refers to minor roads rather than highways, but it still points to their common existence.

    As for Ghoere, I doubt a full-blown highway to the IC is necessary unless Ghorien Hiriele was trading down that way. Which is possible, of course, if she has a diplomatic agreement with someone on the route (like Kalien, for example). A road between Bhaelene (hills) and Endier (open) is quite feasible, but such a route actually existing is pure speculation. Anyone know anything "official" about the relationship between Kalien and Hiriele?

    In the Northlands, there's definitely a trade road from Dhoesone into the heart of Tuarevhel (sp?). I bet Cariele also has at least one or two roads through it, as it is largely run by profit-hungry guilders. I'd expect one runs north and west into Dhoesone, and the other south into Mhoried and/or Alamie.

  6. #6
    > destowe wrote:

    > In the Ruins of Empire DW has a few trade routes listed. I believe one

    to the Sielwood and the other to Coeranys.



    > Perhaps these are underground tunnels (a specialty holding?) or the

    elves have a road in their land.





    I think the BA - Sielwode one is listed as a secret tunnel.



    The ones into Osoerde pose a whole world of questions. I do not see the

    dwarven goods going by river. So, some sort of road must come out of BA. I

    would guess that the road would run from Rivenrock to Ruorven and then

    through the Spirits end? If anyone can maintain a swamp road it would be the

    dwarves.



    On a tangent.....There should have been a road over the Lyssan pass

    (Chimeron) ....IIRC the old Empire used the pass to march troops and it is

    still held by the Fortress. This road would bisect the BA to Osoerde Road.



    Randy
    Hello, I guess I gotta have a sig.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    On a tangent.....There should have been a road over the Lyssan pass
    (Chimeron) ....IIRC the old Empire used the pass to march troops and it is
    still held by the Fortress. This road would bisect the BA to Osoerde Road.

    Randy
    A minor road perhaps, but doubtless even that has fallen into disrepair - who would bother to maintain it in the last 550 years since the Empire's demise? It's probably no more than a broken footpath by now, used by occasional locals (sheepherders and trappers, perhaps) or intrepid explorers. The Chimaeron is pretty explicitly unwelcoming to travellers, according to Ruins of Empire.

    Now that I think of it, I think you might be right about the secret underground road between BA and the Sielwode.

  8. #8
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Secert underground road? You`re kidding right? Just as the author of

    Greatheart was kidding about the underground paths in Markazor?



    -----Original Message-----

    From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion

    [mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Osprey

    Sent: 1. oktober 2003 00:49

    To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM

    Subject: Re: Roads in Anuire [2#1982]



    This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    You can view the entire thread at:

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    Osprey wrote:

    On a tangent.....There should have been a road over the Lyssan

    pass

    (Chimeron) ....IIRC the old Empire used the pass to march troops and it

    is

    still held by the Fortress. This road would bisect the BA to Osoerde

    Road.



    Randy


    A minor road perhaps, but doubtless even that has fallen into disrepair

    - who would bother to maintain it in the last 550 years since the

    Empire`s demise? It`s probably no more than a broken footpath by now,

    used by occasional locals (sheepherders and trappers, perhaps) or

    intrepid explorers. The Chimaeron is pretty explicitly unwelcoming to

    travellers, according to Ruins of Empire.



    Now that I think of it, I think you might be right about the secret

    underground road between BA and the Sielwode.



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  9. #9
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    OK, p.65 of Ruins of Empire (Trade Goods) says the following about Baruk-Azhik's trade routes: "Trade routes do run down to Ruorven in Coeranys and Shieldhaven in Moried...and a secret road runds through the Sielwode into into its capital, Siellaghriod. Other trade routes include one to Moriel and one to Ilien."

    So the BA-Sielwode road is secret, but not necessarilly underground. It might be underground through Baruk-Azhik, but I doubt the elves would allow extensive tunnels beneath the forest floor. More like winding paths through a sentient forest. I would imagine the road opens (as the Sielwode is sentient) for those whom the Queen welcomes, and closes to intruders. And a road through a sentient forest certainly counts as fortified (much as highways must have fortified wayposts).

    So the Sielwode-BA road would probably run from Siellaghriod through Bran's Retreat. Perhaps it originates there in the Retreat, to keep it as invisible to outsiders as possible. Being secret, it might be better to leave it off the map anyways.

    BA-Ruorven (Coeranys) Road: Rivenrock - The Promontory - Cliff's Lament - Deepshadow - Caudraight - Bogsend - Ruorven.

    BA - Shieldhaven (Mhoried) Road: This would split off at Deepshadow from the Coeranys Road, then skirt the southern edge of the Sielwode through Hope's Demise and Soileite in Elinie.
    So it might go: Deepshadow - Hope's Demise - Soileite - Mholien - [ferry across the Maesil] - Balteruine - Bevaldruor (Shieldhaven).

    BA - Moriel Road: Splits off at Bogsend - Moergen - Moriel (skirting the Bogsend and Moergen swamplands, 'cause it's easier and cheaper).

    As for BA - Ilien, I imagine Diirk Watershold maintains a seaport in Ruorven, and Ilien trade ships carry the goods to and from Ilien. Thus, no extra roads needed, unless the seaport is on Ruorven's coast rather than upriver in the capital. In this case, the road would extend just a bit further (perhaps to the mouth of the river, whatever its name is; it's not named in RoE).

    So that covers the Baruk-Azhik set, as far as I can tell.

  10. #10
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 08:45 PM 10/1/2003 +0200, Osprey wrote:



    > So the BA-Sielwode road is secret, but not necessarilly underground. It

    > might be underground through Baruk-Azhik, but I doubt the elves would

    > allow extensive tunnels beneath the forest floor. More like winding

    > paths through a sentient forest.



    The road actually is supposed to be entirely underground. At least as far

    as the part of it that is in B-A. "...a secret underground road that

    travels from the heart of Baruk-Azhik just past the border of the Sielwode,

    where it emerges above ground."



    There`s also some text about how the dwarves are loathe to mar their

    mountains with roads, preferring to use waterways and that their trading

    partners come to dwarven lands rather than they travel outside their

    kingdom. Presumably the traders are not let very far into B-A, and handle

    cartage of goods along the (underground) roads within the borders of B-A

    themselves. These goods could then be handed of to their human partners in

    small, underground "towns" on the borders of the provinces.



    >I would imagine the road opens (as the Sielwode is sentient) for those

    >whom the Queen welcomes, and closes to intruders. And a road through a

    >sentient forest certainly counts as fortified (much as highways must have

    >fortified wayposts).



    One of the things that might make sense for elven traders is that they need

    not have roads through forested provinces. The elven ability to travel

    through such terrain easily would seem to make roads redundant for

    them. Trade is not, of course, a major emphasis of the elves, but

    something like that would seem sensible as a racial ability at the domain

    level, especially if accompanied by a general increase in the difficulty

    for them to trade in the first place since it is not particularly where

    their skills lie.



    Gary

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