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  1. #1
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    There was a long discussion in the Nature School for Elven Wizards thread about elves and healing. But that thread should remain focused on the topic of the Nature School, so I opted to start this one as a new thread based on the healing discussion. Based on ideas of myself and others there (forgive me for not posting your names here, but pipe in if this was your idea originally), I came up with a system about elven physiology and healing.

    The Sidhelien have a kind of symbiotic connection with mebhaighal. They depend upon its continual flow for their own well-being. For the Sidhe, the health of the land is directly connected to their personal health. When the mebhaighal is strong, elves can heal wounds rapidly, and they do not suffer the ravages of age and disease.

    Elves do not heal as humans do. In a province with a high source rating (5+), elves can Regenerate. The rate of regeneration is based upon the strength of the mebhaighal. For every level of the source above 4, elves regenerate 1 hp per hour of rest or light activity. Thus, in a typical elven forest (source 7), an elf would heal 3 hp per hour, and 5 hp per hour in the heart of the forest (source 9).

    Outside such areas, however, their healing ability is slowed. As long as a province has at least 1 level of source remaining, elves can heal at a rate of [Source level] hit points per day of rest. Thus, they heal only 1-4 hp per day of rest in the more developed areas of Cerilia.

    If a province has no source levels remaining, elves cannot heal there. They can bandage their wounds and prevent infection using the Heal skill, but their mebhaighal-bound bodies simply have no energy to repair themselves.

    Because they rely on mebhaighal to heal their bodies, elves cannot be healed by divine magic. The spells used to heal humans and demi-humans simply have no effect on the elven physiology.

  2. #2
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Really nice work! You have my thumbs up!

  3. #3
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    In a province with a high source rating (5+), elves can Regenerate. The rate of regeneration is based upon the strength of the mebhaighal. For every level of the source above 4, elves regenerate 1 hp per hour of rest or light activity. Thus, in a typical elven forest (source 7), an elf would heal 3 hp per hour, and 5 hp per hour in the heart of the forest (source 9).
    I think this is a sweet idea... But don't you think its a little too powerful...

    Because they rely on mebhaighal to heal their bodies, elves cannot be healed by divine magic. The spells used to heal humans and demi-humans simply have no effect on the elven physiology.
    If healing is a divine power, and the elf is one of those rare elves who believes in one god or another, the divine power of a cleric of said god should still be able to heal him, I think. Or if it is the belief of the Cleric in his divinty, that provides the healing, it should still affect an elf, whether or not he wants it to... (The elves turned their back on the Gods after being fooled by Azrai, but what cleric wouldn't try to get all those untapped followers or what god wouldn't wish to extend his divinty over them... The source material is very clear that the elves believe the human gods exist... they just want no part of them..)

    I think the acceptance of healing from a human cleric, would force the elf in return, to feel he owed a debt to both the divinity that he wants no part of and the cleric he would owe respect to for saving his immortal life...
    He would want to avoid that and the reminder of Azrai as much as possible (especially if he actually remembered Azrai and Mt Diesmaar, itself.)
    By this rational it seems to me, an elf would not accept the divine healing of a cleric... unless unknowingly (ie unconcious) or in complete desperation.... (not merely to save his own life, but to accomplish some urgent *Good of the many, outweighing the good of the few* task....)

    Can you imagine the crisis of faith for the cleric? I can heal this dude and that dude and Joe the dwarf, but my God (will not/can not) help my beloved unconsious elf buddy... to whom I owe my sorry life three times over... He'll be god shopping in no time.... lol. Unless of course he is laughing, "Ha Ha! There isn't an elf worth saving on all of Cerillia..."
    O hark, O hear! How thin and clear,
    And thinner, clearer, farther going!
    O sweet and far from cliff and scar
    The Horns of Sielwode faintly blowing!

  4. #4
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Can you imagine the crisis of faith for the cleric? I can heal this dude and that dude and Joe the dwarf, but my God (will not/can not) help my beloved unconsious elf buddy... to whom I owe my sorry life three times over... He'll be god shopping in no time.... lol. Unless of course he is laughing, "Ha Ha! There isn't an elf worth saving on all of Cerillia..."
    Or he could just place lots of plants in pots around the elf (:lol; an alternative would be to place an elf in a small glade. This latter enhances drama and role-playing, in the need to get their friend into a forest before it is too late!

  5. #5
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    Vallariel schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=36&t=1956

    >

    ...



    >If healing is a divine power, and the elf is one of those rare elves who believes in one god or another, the divine power of a cleric of said god should still be able to heal him, I think. Or if it is the belief of the Cleric in his divinty, that provides the healing, it should still affect an elf, whether or not he wants it to... (The elves turned their back on the Gods after being fooled by Azrai, but what cleric wouldn`t try to get all those untapped followers or what god wouldn`t wish to extend his divinty over them... The source material is very clear that the elves believe the human gods exist... they just want no part of them..)

    >

    The sidhelien did not turn their back on the gods AFTER Azrai fooled

    them, which would be after the invasion from the adurian barbarians who

    founded Anuire. They did not worship gods even before that, so not the

    new gods, but also not the old gods. That Azrai fooled them does not

    necessarily mean that they worshipped him as god while they followed

    him, just that he convinced/lured them to take revenge on the invading

    humans.



    A cleric who tries to heal an sidhelien might very well, depending on

    the campaign lose his divine powers - a god could not want some

    "agnostics" benefit from his powers who refuse to worship ANY god since

    before the new gods where created.



    Even worse: Acknoledging that the gods exist, does not even mean that

    the sidhelien acknowledge that the gods are GODS, just that they exist -

    perhaps the oldest sidhelien see the gods whom they knew before they

    ascended at Deismaar as lowly humans and refer to them as humans with

    high bloodlines but not as divine beings... ;-)

    bye

    Michael

  6. #6
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "Vallariel" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

    Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:08 PM





    > Can you imagine the crisis of faith for the cleric? I can heal this

    > dude and that dude and Joe the dwarf, but my God (will not/can

    > not) help my beloved unconsious elf buddy... to whom I owe my

    > sorry life three times over... He`ll be god shopping in no time.... lol.



    Given the way the religious mind used to operate the cleric would have no

    crisis of faith, but would say something like, "Oh foolish elf, why do you

    fail to see the power of the gods and acknowledge their power? For your

    prideful refusal to humble yourself you now lay bleeding and I am powerless

    to help you, though I could raise my great grandfather from death." Its the

    elf who should go god shopping.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  7. #7
    Vallariel:

    > >If healing is a divine power, and the elf is one of those rare elves who

    believes in one god or another, the divine power of a cleric of said god

    should still be able to heal him, I think. Or if it is the belief of the

    Cleric in his divinty, that provides the healing, it should still affect an

    elf, whether or not he wants it to... (The elves turned their back on the

    Gods after being fooled by Azrai, but what cleric wouldn`t try to get all

    those untapped followers or what god wouldn`t wish to extend his divinty

    over them... The source material is very clear that the elves believe the

    human gods exist... they just want no part of them..)



    Michael:

    > The sidhelien did not turn their back on the gods AFTER Azrai fooled

    > them, which would be after the invasion from the adurian barbarians who

    > founded Anuire. They did not worship gods even before that, so not the

    > new gods, but also not the old gods. That Azrai fooled them does not

    > necessarily mean that they worshipped him as god while they followed

    > him, just that he convinced/lured them to take revenge on the invading

    > humans.

    >

    > A cleric who tries to heal an sidhelien might very well, depending on

    > the campaign lose his divine powers - a god could not want some

    > "agnostics" benefit from his powers who refuse to worship ANY god since

    > before the new gods where created.

    >

    > Even worse: Acknoledging that the gods exist, does not even mean that

    > the sidhelien acknowledge that the gods are GODS, just that they exist -

    > perhaps the oldest sidhelien see the gods whom they knew before they

    > ascended at Deismaar as lowly humans and refer to them as humans with

    > high bloodlines but not as divine beings... ;-)





    Since the elves look on the gods as something akin to powerful humans, my

    question would be along these line: if you were laying in a puddle of your

    own blood and guts and a very skilled surgeon came along and said "I can

    heal you, but I should warn you that I believe in the Great Grax whom you

    despise. Should I leave you to die or fix you?" Unless you happen to be one

    of those odd aberrant the odds are overwhelming that you will take the

    healing.



    There is a saying in medicine: There are no atheists in the OR and no

    technophobes among the terminally ill.



    Randy ~ Eosin
    Hello, I guess I gotta have a sig.

  8. #8
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 09:34 PM 9/16/2003 +0200, RaspK_FOG wrote:



    >Or he could just place lots of plants in pots around the elf (:lol:); an

    >alternative would be to place an elf in a small glade. This latter

    >enhances drama and role-playing, in the need to get their friend into a

    >forest before it is too late&#33;



    I just wanted to pop in to note that I haven`t much liked any of the

    proposals/rationalizations that have been presented in the past regarding

    healing magic and elves. That is, not allowing healing magics to work on

    elves by itself doesn`t strike me as a very good explanation of why they

    cannot themselves use healing magics, nor does the divine (rather than

    arcane) aspect of the "cure" spells seem like enough justification for not

    allowing elves healing magics. None of those things by themselves have

    been very apt. I do, however, get a kick out of this explanation of

    healing for elves being related to their relationship to the natural

    environment, so I think in combination we`re at last arriving at something

    that might be both more colourful for BR and have the potential for solid

    game mechanics.



    This particular set of ideas (no divine healing for elves, but improved

    "natural" healing--nice pun there) allows for cute game mechanical

    explanations (elves heal 1 hp/day per potential source level of the

    province they are in, for instance) but also because that serves as an

    excellent characterization of both the elven animosity towards other races,

    and explains their decline. If elves simply don`t heal as rapidly in

    provinces with lower sources available then we have a really good game

    mechanical explanation for their decline and retreat into their

    forests. Kudos, folks.



    Gary

  9. #9
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    I know that may sound off-topic to some people, by I could not resist asking it out: what about Death?

    With the lack of healing (which was very well given by Osprey, and he has my gratitude for posting such a well-wrought concept), one would think that elves could not be raised from the dead. In previous editions, however, there was this ambient feeling that elves could reincarnate. Combining that with an inherent connection to the mebhaigal, it could be possible that an elf could reincarnate if left for sufficient time in a province with a high source rating...

    How does this sound? For those of you who find this too good, I suppose that making the reincarnation process take a day in the heart of a great forest, while it could take perhaps a year in a province with a very low source rating, or not happen at all, could be a good balancing issue. Alternatively, the elf should be transfered in such a place (province with a minimum source rating) within one week per level of the elf (instead of druid), or the ability would not work. The only matter would be to create a new percentage list based highly on forest creatures (animals) and fey.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    The Sidhe are immortal. I think the tradeoff for them is that they don&#39;t have souls that can be called back. Instead of being like a human, who is somewhat seperate from his or her immortal soul, I imagine the elf as a soul embodied in flesh.

    So what does happen when the flesh is destroyed? Is the elf&#39;s spirit also destroyed?

    I tend to think of it as disrupted, and the energies dispersed back into the surrounding mebhaighal. Thus, that spirit&#39;s individual identity is lost. So no reincarnation or resurrection.

    Besides, I always liked how rare those powers were in BR. Magical healing is pretty high fantasy already, and ressurrection is REALLY high fantasy&#33; If BR is a low-fantasy (or at least low-magic) world, then I&#39;m all for discouraging the great miracles and such.

    Naturally, there are 101 possibilites (and then some) as to what happens to elves when they die. But I think that metaphysically, there should be some sort of balance for immortality in life. And the most obvious counterbalance is that death is final for the immortals. There is no afterlife, no realm of the gods. Cerilia is the realm of the Sidhe. No trekking through through the shadow world for dead elf spirits&#33;

    Osprey

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