Atlas Project 2: Npc Stats

[Osprey]

Why have both? Since we need a viable class for such folks, why continue to
have an inferior NPC version of the class? The reason I specifically asked
about the "underpowered aristocrat from the DMG" was related to this. I
considered a version like the BRCS noble for my Aristocrat, but I felt that
fewer skills and more class features (I have 5 bonus feats to the BRCS` 6)
was they way to go.

http://home.mchsi.com/~kgauck/taelshore/aristocrat.htm

KGauck,
I checked out your Aristocrat class. It's interesting, and extensive. If I had my druthers, the BRCS would end up with a cross-breed between your idea and the current Noble class. The Noble has more skill points (6 base, as opposed to 4 in your class), which I definitely like. Also, the advantage of more feats does allow for more flexibility within the class, which I also like. On the other hand, one bonus feat every 4 levels IS pretty skimpy, IMO. But the inclusion of many political feats in the BRCS does make adding more bonus feats a very viable option for the Noble (1 every 3 levels seems like a better balance), especially if a list of possible bonus feats is created for them.

My only real hangup with your Aristocrat is the degree of detail in the class abilities is a bit overwhelming, and the application of things like "anything applying to the rule or welfare of the domain" is rather broad and open to a wide range of interpretation. It could lead to some very overpowered regents once those bonuses start stacking up. Converting some of those abilities into feats might not be a bad way to go, however.

Just some thoughts (and to let you know your work does not go unnoticed or unappreciated: there are a lot of good ideas in there! ).

-Osprey

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----

From: "Osprey" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 1:13 PM





> I checked out your Aristocrat class. It`s interesting, and extensive.



Thanks for the comments. :-)



> The Noble has more skill points (6 base, as opposed to 4 in your

> class), which I definitely like.



I like fewer skill points and I compound that by increasing the number of

skills (Diplomacy gets broken up into Bargain for Rogues, Oratory for

Priests and Aristocrats, and Diplomacy for Aristocrats; Bards get all

three). Otherwise I`d end up just increasing DC`s. This way, published

DC`s are useful to me strait away, and I don`t dilute the influence of

intelligence.



> Also, the advantage of more feats does allow for more flexibility

> within the class, which I also like. On the other hand, one bonus

> feat every 4 levels IS pretty skimpy, IMO.



I like the large number of feats being special for the fighter. Its one of

the reasons I prefered lots of class features (many of which are

underpowered as lone feats). It made the Aristocrat more focused, and less

flexible than the fighter.



> My only real hangup with your Aristocrat is the degree of detail in

> the class abilities is a bit overwhelming, and the application of things

> like "anything applying to the rule or welfare of the domain" is rather

> broad and open to a wide range of interpretation.



I can`t find anything quite this broad. Even still, when you make up stuff

for your own use you can litteraly write "a bonus to some stuff" and keep it

balanced, but that`s not very transportable. Could you point out where I

was so broad? I could probabaly tighten up my meaning.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[Sir Justine]

The Spider (Awnsheghlien Fighter 13, see Blood Enemies book)
Aeric Boeruine (Anuirean Fighter 12)
Rhuobhe Manslayer (Awnsheghlien Fighter 16/Sorcerer 13)
Darien Avan (Anuirean Noble 6/Fighter 3)
Gavin Tael (Anuirean Fighter 9)
Daeric Mhoried (Anuirean Fighter 2/Ranger 5)
Caliedhe Dosiere (Anuirean Noble 4/Wizard 16)
The Gorgon (see BRCS)
The Hand of Azrai (Vos Cleric 16)
The Eyeless One (?? Wizard 9)
Godar Thurinson (Dwarven Fighter 6)
Razzik Fanggrabber (Goblin Fighter 4)
Tie&#39;skar Graecher (Goblin Fighter 7)
Kral Two-Toes (Goblin Priest 6)
Mheallie Bireon (Anuirean Rogue 8)
The Chimaera (Awnsheghlien Wizard 13)
Jaison Raenech (Anuirean Fighter 7)

What about the npc&#39;s levels? Will they stay in the same way they were on AD&D? (I can see that some have changed, but I guess its only the ones who were above 20th level.)
I ask this because I think there are some (some, not all&#33 of the npcs that are underpowered, IMHO.
What hurts me most is basically Daeric Mhoried, with only 7 levels. I mean, he&#39;s the regent of the most "tough" of the anuirean realms (bordering the Gorgon&#39;s Crown, there would be no other option), and with 7 levels he won&#39;t be much respected.
Now, I now that the regent&#39;s levels aren&#39;t the only factor, but it&#39;s an important one.

...

D&D, and in its 3rd edition more than ever, doens&#39;t makes "fantasy heroes". It makes "fantasy super-heroes".
What I want to say is that characters get VERY powerful from medium to high levels. A fighter of about 10th level, could single-handed defeat a very large number of, let&#39;s say, 1st level soldiers (warriors). You might think not, but a group of high (+- 15) level could change the course of a war, ALONE - not using their political power, not using their armies, no - using their Base Attack Bonus, their high AC, and their three-digital Hit Points value.

One way that I see to decrease this problem is to actually increase the power of the npcs. Now you might think that this will only make all things to be over-powered, wich is surelly NOT the flavor of Birthright. But not. For example, IMC the "average" soldier is not a 1st level warrior. It is a 2nd level fighter (I don&#39;t use the DMG classes - I find ridiculous the concept of "common people" being weaker than "the PCs". I mean, PCs will already have higher atributes and higher levels, they don&#39;t need a better class). And in an army, at about every 10 soldiers there will be a sergeant (4th level fighter), at about every 20 soldiers there will be a lieutenant (6th level fighter) and so on... you get the piciture.

Now, one thing is to defeat 128 1st level warriors (you don&#39;t know how EASY is this in D&D...).
Other thing is to defeat 100 2nd level, 10 4th level, 5 6th level, and one 8th level (the captain?) fighters.
This kind of thing makes the PCs less powerful direct - now, if they want to defeat this army, they will need to use their political power, THEIR armies...

Well, this is just my opinion, and how I do in my campaign.

Now back to the NPCs, I think some of them could be a little more powerful, to be able to challenge the PCs. I mean, Darien Avan is described as one of the most cunning politicians of Anuire. Is one of the most cunning politicians just a noble 6? And what about the noble 7, the noble 8... (and I&#39;m not even talking about the noble 15, 16...)???
When the PCs reach 6th level, their political skills will be almost as good as those of the Prince, and they aren&#39;t even in the half way of the D&D power curve (10th level)&#33;

Of course, the DM could judge that just as the PCs advance in levels, the NPCs advance too.
This is what I have done in my last campaign.

Anyway, I will try to do one or more of these npcs and submit them, to try to help the Atlas&#33;

[Osprey]

What about the awnsheglien? You give their class levels, but not their monster levels. Where do those figure in?

-Osprey

[Osprey]

Jaison Raenech
Male Anuirean, Fighter 7, Lawful Evil; CR 7; Medium Humanoid; HD 7d10 + 30 (+14 Con, +16 regent bonus), hp 71; Init +1; Speed 20&#39; (Run 60&#39; AC 21, touch 11; Attack: +14/+9 Melee (1d8+8, 19-20/x2, +3 longsword); Face/Reach: 5&#39;x5&#39;/5&#39;

SV: Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +3 (+7 vs. Charm)
Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 14, Bld 18.
Bloodline: Brenna, Major (18); Blood Abilities: Major Resistance: Charm (minor), Persuasion (major)

Skills: Lead +15, Intimidate +17, Ride +11, Warcraft +12
Feats: Anuirean Arms Training, Conqueror, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-By Attack, Skill Focus: Intimidate, Trample, Weapon Specialization: Longsword,

Major resistance: Charm (Su): Minor blood ability, grants +4 to saves vs. Charm/Enchantment effects.
Persuasion (Sp): Major blood ability, may cast suggestion once per day (DC 19).
Divine Aura (Sp): Grants +2 to Charisma-based skills. Once per day he may enthrall non-blooded creatures in a 50&#39; radius as a full-round action (DC 19).

Possessions: "Grandmark," the Sword of Osoerde: +3 Longsword, grants Divine Aura (major blood ability) to the wielder. This is the hereditary birthright of the Dukes of Osoerde, and was stolen from the former duke when Raenech murdered him and usurped the duchey. William Moergen would dearly love to reclaim this weapon.
Other items: masterwork full plate, large shield, heavy warhorse, potion of cure serious wounds (3d8+5), potion of invisibility. Raenech keeps the potion of invisibility in case he ever needs to flee an otherwise-fatal situation.

Appearance: Jaison Raenech is a well-built man in his early 30&#39;s, with well-groomed, short dark brown hair and mustache, stark facial features, and a dark, cruel gaze. His mouth seems to be set in an almost constant sneer. Raenech stands a full 6&#39; in height, and in full armor he is an extremely imposing figure. He uses this to good effect in nearly all social situations, as he prefers to intimidate both subordinates and fellow regents in order to keep the upper hand. His notorious cruelty is etched into his bearing and features, and he takes visible pleasure from the suffering of others, particularly those who have defied him or broken his laws.

[Eosin the Red]

Hello Ospery,



I tend to go with a little more skill versitility. This was my basic (from memory) build of him but sadly, he has joined his ansestors in my game. I pictured him as more of a lithe athletic sorta guy (balance, jump, climb, swim, & tumble).



PS - your build may be missing weapon focus (I think??).



Jaison Raenech, Male Human Ftr4/Rog3: HD 4d10 + 4 plus 3d6 + 3; hp 42; Init +6 (+2 dex, +4 Improved Inish); Move 30; AC 17 (+1 Chainshirt, + 2 Dex), touch 12, flat 15; BAB +6; Grap +8; Atk +13/+8 melee (1d8 + 8 Grandmark, long sword) SA evasion, sneak attack +2d6; AL LE; SV Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +3; Str 16, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 12, Bld 18



Skills: Balance +9 (5), Bluff +6 (5), Climb +9 (6), Escape Artist +7 (5), Hide +4 (3), Intimidate +6 (5), Jump +9 (6), Knowledge (Local) +4 (2), Knowledge (Nobility) +4 (2), Lead +6 (5), Ride +8 (6), Search +3 (2), Swim +5 (2), Tumble +9 (5), Warcraft +9 (5)



Feats: Improved Inish, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Skill Focus (Warcraft), Weapon Focus (Long Sword), Weapon Specialization (Long Sword).



Bloodline: Brenna, Major (18); Blood Abilities: Major Resistance: Charm (minor), Persuasion (major)Major resistance: Charm (Su): Minor blood ability, grants +4 to saves vs. Charm/Enchantment effects.

Persuasion (Sp): Major blood ability, may cast suggestion once per day (DC 19).

Divine Aura (Sp): Grants +2 to Charisma-based skills. Once per day he may

enthrall non-blooded creatures in a 50` radius as a full-round action (DC 19).



Possessions: “Grandmark”- the Sword of Osoerde: +3 longsword, grants Divine Aura (major blood ability) to the wielder. This is the hereditary birthright of the Dukes of Osoerde, and was stolen from the former duke when Raenech murdered him and usurped the duchy. William Moergen would dearly love to reclaim this weapon.

[Osprey]

PS - your build may be missing weapon focus (I think??).

Anuirean Arms training covers Weapon Focus: Longsword.

I was building him off of Raesene&#39;s original list (which pegs him as a Level 7 Fighter). However, I like your version, too, especially since he has a bloodline of Brenna.

I figured on the Intimidate skill focus because of the mention of his rulership style in Ruins of Empire: impalement and crucifiction are his favorite forms of punishment and making examples out of those who defy him. So I kinda&#39; ran with it.

[kgauck]

I`d make Jaison an Aristocrat 5/Fighter2.



Using the BRCS he`d have four bonus feats and four standard feats. He`d

have 52 skill ranks plus Int bonus. He could have all of Osprey`s feats

except Weapon Specialization, or all of Eosin`s feats, with a substitution

in place of Weapon Specialization. Since Osprey have him a +1 Int Mod, and

Eosin gave him a +2, he has at least a +1 for purposes of thsi discussion,

so I`ll assume he has a total of 62 skill ranks all together. I break the

ranks down as follows:



Administration 10, Appraise 5, Bluff 9, Diplomacy 5, Intimidate 9,

Knowledge (Law) 5, Knowledge (Nobility) 5, Ride 7, Sense Motive 7



A law holder simply must have Law 5 to be effective, a province holder must

have Nobility 5 to be effective. Some Adminsitration is essential.

Appraise and Sense Motive are neccesary to keep your household in line. The

Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate collection is for getting his way in

politics, their arrangement reflects his emphisis.



If I used my own Aristocrat, he`d have 16 fewer skill points the same number

of feats plus the class features Leadership, Wealth, Rank, Title, Education,

and Noble Conduct.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[Osprey]

Honestly, I&#39;d keep Raenech&#39;s focus on the Fighter aspect. He&#39;s a usurper, originally a lieutenant to the old duke. And as of 551 MR, it doesn&#39;t seem like he&#39;s been duke for all that long, otherwise the situation with Moergen would probably be resolved. I figure he might have been minor nobility in Osoerde. But he has very militant attitudes in his style of rulership. Personally, Kenneth, I&#39;d go for something more like Fighter 5/ Noble2, keeping the militant focus. There are plenty of other Anuirean regents that I think would switch most of their fighter levels for Noble (or Aristocrat, if you like). Darien Avan being the prime example, and Hierl Diem another (I&#39;d be happy to make a Hierl Diem a straight Noble). Ghavin Tael and the Mhor are another set of regents that I&#39;d keep the fighter focus on, and even Aeric Boeruine.

Anuire may be heavily political, but it&#39;s also a land whose patron is the god of war and nobility. Haelyn is a warrior god, as was Anduiras before him, and the Empire was built on conquest more than anything else. I still like the original BR concept that fighters make good landed regents. In my own campaign, I often back the fighter-focused regents with Noble or Expert advisors, chamberlains, etc. to help support them in the court circles. If using Kn: Law as a requisite skill of ruling law holdings, then I&#39;d add that as a class skill for fighters.

[ConjurerDragon]

Kenneth Gauck schrieb:

> I`d make Jaison an Aristocrat 5/Fighter2.

...

> If I used my own Aristocrat, he`d have 16 fewer skill points the same number

> of feats plus the class features Leadership, Wealth, Rank, Title, Education,

> and Noble Conduct.

> Kenneth Gauck



Kenneth when you use Aristocrat and mean your own creation and others

say Aristocrat and mean the "Noble" class or PC-Aristocrat from the BRCS

instead and still others refer to Aristocrat and mean the NPC class from

the PHB then it gets somewhat confusing. Perhaps PHB Aristocrat, BRCS

Noble and "my own" or "homebrew" Aristorat would allow even casual

readers to understand the differences.



A question to the various creators of Jaesons stats:

Does Jaeson desever the PC class BRCS Noble at all? After all he started

only as lieutenant of the former ruler and was not born as ruler or

even member of the ruling family of the duchy. Perhaps he ought to have

only the PHB Aristocrat or at least 1 level in it?

bye

Michael