Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 33
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rome (Italy)
    Posts
    28
    Downloads
    13
    Uploads
    0
    Monks were absent from D&D 2nd edition and thus from Birthright setting. But third edition reintroduced them into play, so why not introduce monks in Birthright? Personally, I don’t like the powers that give this class an oriental flavour (principally ki strike and slow fall). A lot of their abilities are justified by ki energy. Suppose Cerilian monks could channel a different kind of energy… the residual divine energy of Deismaar. Discipline (and lawful alignment) could be the focus for non blooded characters to tap on these energies. Monks could thus develop divination powers (Vorynn’ heritage), martial arts (Haelyn’s heritage), and chose to be good, neutral or evil (Azrai’s heritage).
    What do you think about it?

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by Elrond@Aug 12 2003, 07:07 AM
    Monks were absent from D&D 2nd edition and thus from Birthright setting. But third edition reintroduced them into play, so why not introduce monks in Birthright? Personally, I don’t like the powers that give this class an oriental flavour (principally ki strike and slow fall). A lot of their abilities are justified by ki energy. Suppose Cerilian monks could channel a different kind of energy… the residual divine energy of Deismaar. Discipline (and lawful alignment) could be the focus for non blooded characters to tap on these energies. Monks could thus develop divination powers (Vorynn’ heritage), martial arts (Haelyn’s heritage), and chose to be good, neutral or evil (Azrai’s heritage).
    What do you think about it?
    Yes, but they are still oriental in flavor. There aren't any known societies in Cerilia that support this type of class. Perhaps in Aduria? But that is outside of the bounds of this project - basically it is for Cerilia and not Aduria.

    In the DMG many times it talks about monks and how they might not fit into every campaign setting.

    The barbarian class was determined to fit quite well into various cultures, especially the Vos and Rjurik so it was "allowed" so to speak. That is the main difference between the two "new" 3.0 classes in regards to the BRCS-playtest.

    And before someone jumps on it, monks are mentioned in various BR texts, specifically in Khinasi in regards to temples. This is basically not the monk class but rather the academic one, you know the one mentioned as a cloistered and copying spiritiual texts, etc. These are two very different treatments of something with the same name.

    But as a DM you are "free" to specifically allow monks in your campaign if you desire it was just determined that there wasn't sufficient cultural backing to support it being a class in the BRCS-playtest document.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #3
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Springfield Mo
    Posts
    3,562
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    ge -----

    From: "Elrond" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

    Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 7:07 AM





    > A lot of their abilities are justified by ki energy. Suppose Cerilian

    > monks could channel a different kind of energy. the residual divine

    > energy of Deismaar.



    Ki energy is the life force that animates all living things. Its often

    translated as breath, spirit, or life force. If we used a different word,

    say "focus" or "discipline" it would be perfectly applicable to anyone. If

    I said I made a new feat called Disciplined Mind and it granted a +2 bonus

    to enchantment would anyone say it doesn`t belong in BR? On the contrary,

    it could be argued that followers of Haelyn would prize such mental

    discipline. The real problem would be is it really neccesary as a feat when

    we already have Iron Will. Maybe as a class feature for a Haelyn based PrC.

    What about Focused Strike, allowing an attack to penetrate damage reduction

    as if the attack had a magic +1 bonus? Ruornil`s partisans combat undead,

    who often have damage reduction. They would probabaly call it Esoteric

    Technique. Same mechanic, different name. All that needs to be done in BR

    to add the monk is abandon Eastern names and the specific Eastern

    interpretations of rather universal concepts. There are places where I

    think a contemplative warrior would make sense.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Germany near Frankfurt
    Posts
    295
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    We had this Monk-discussion some time ago. Some people think the Monk has an oriental flair and thus does not fit into the BR setting.

    However, I&#39;am still one of the people who like the Monks. IMO the Monk is related to an oriental setting but not tied to it. It&#39;s easy to define a non-oriental Monk. Glad there are other Monk-fans around....
    my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....

  5. #5
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Elrond,

    Just so you can read the previous discussion on the feasability of monks in Birthright, here&#39;s the link to the old thread. It gets tedious revisiting the same discussions repeatedly. Not that you&#39;d have any idea about that being new to the board and such. Maybe some of the questions and arguments for (and against) can be read to gain an understanding of why this decision was made.

    http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php...=ST&f=36&t=1261
    Duane Eggert

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rome (Italy)
    Posts
    28
    Downloads
    13
    Uploads
    0
    it was just determined that there wasn&#39;t sufficient cultural backing to support it being a class in the BRCS-playtest document
    If you consider the PH’s monk, you’re right. My proposal is to create a Cerilian monk class. Substitute ki with “residual divine energy of Deismaar”. Eliminate the oriental flair of the original monk, and the class will fit perfectly in the Birthright setting. And I remember you that boxe and wrestling existed among ancient Romans and Greeks. Martial arts are not exclusive prerogatives of asian cultures.
    “Diamond soul” could be considered as the legacy of Vorynn’s divine essence, “abundant step” is Azrai’s legacy, “diamond body” comes from Reynir, “wholeness of body” is inherited from Haelyn, and so on... The Cerilian monk is a non blooded individual (of course blooded ones are permitted) capable of tapping the divine essence released at Mount Deismaar. Discipline helps him mastering this energy.

    Elrond,

    Just so you can read the previous discussion on the feasability of monks in Birthright, here&#39;s the link to the old thread. It gets tedious revisiting the same discussions repeatedly. Not that you&#39;d have any idea about that being new to the board and such. Maybe some of the questions and arguments for (and against) can be read to gain an understanding of why this decision was made.
    Ok, thanks. The topic can be closed.

  7. #7
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    near Frankfurt/ Germany
    Posts
    801
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by Elrond@Aug 12 2003, 11:58 PM
    “Diamond soul” could be considered as the legacy of Vorynn’s divine essence, “abundant step” is Azrai’s legacy, “diamond body” comes from Reynir, “wholeness of body” is inherited from Haelyn, and so on... The Cerilian monk is a non blooded individual (of course blooded ones are permitted) capable of tapping the divine essence released at Mount Deismaar. Discipline helps him mastering this energy.
    I already know that this monk topic is really discussed to death, but your idea is not bad IMO. But if those abilities "come from the gods", then this class should be for blooded individuals only...

    But this is only my opinion, and I&#39;m from the minority who are FOR monks in Cerilia...

    BTW “wholeness of body” would be inherited from Andurias, I think...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rome (Italy)
    Posts
    28
    Downloads
    13
    Uploads
    0
    I already know that this monk topic is really discussed to death, but your idea is not bad IMO.
    I’ve read the topic linked by irdeggman. It’s several months old (and inactive since early march) and there are no concrete proposals for a Cerilian monk revised class.

    But if those abilities "come from the gods", then this class should be for blooded individuals only...
    Blooded individuals have divine essence running through their veins. It’s a genetically inherited power.
    At Deismaar, the divine essence released by the dying gods was absorbed by people or by the land itself. I’m adding a third option: this energy is also in the air. But it can be tapped only by those individuals (monks) that train their bodies and their minds toward this objective. And discipline can be achieved by everyone, not only by blooded characters.
    This monk loses the oriental flair and replaces ki with divine energy. It’s perfectly coherent with the Birthright campaign setting. Monks fight unarmed because they channel this power through their body and deliver their special attacks with bare fists. Thus, no need of social or historical justification for the monks developing bare handed martial arts (such as the one that says “oppression, will to rebel and prohibition against carrying weapons are the reasons why martial arts were born in eastern Asia”).

    BTW “wholeness of body” would be inherited from Anduiras, I think...
    Yes, of course. Lapsus...

  9. #9
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Springfield Mo
    Posts
    3,562
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    ge -----

    From: "Elrond" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

    Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:33 AM





    > there are no concrete proposals for a Cerilian monk revised class.



    I beg to differ. I actually posted a complete class conversion. I am not

    enthusiastic about a using "Deismaar energy" as a ki substitute. AFAIC, the

    monk is a hand-to-hand combatant with an oriental flair. BR certanly has

    brawlers and others who primarily fight with fists. They don`t *need*

    explanations for fantastic powers.



    I have no objection to the Deismaar monk for anyone elses campaign, but it

    strikes me as contrived and I am perfectly happy to strip away the oriental

    flair of the monk class and use it as a brawler without any special

    explanations.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rome (Italy)
    Posts
    28
    Downloads
    13
    Uploads
    0
    I beg to differ.* I actually posted a complete class conversion.
    Sorry, I didn&#39;t notice. I&#39;ve just read the topic linked by irdeggman. I&#39;m quite new to this forum.
    So my proposal is just... another proposal.

    P.s.: can you give me the link to your conversion, please? Tnx&#33;

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.