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07-24-2003, 10:15 PM #11
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Originally posted by Sarelth@Jul 24 2003, 04:38 PM
First let me say, I was not infering that you meant that in the least. Though if that is how you wish to recieve it, be my guest. I did not mean to be insulting however.
Some sites that I have frequented have a policy of not telling you anything till they feel like it. I find most people would like to have a clue as to when they can hope to expect something. I was just trying to get a little info so that I knew when a product could be hopefully expected.
Again I say sorry if my terminalogy insulted you. It was not my intention.
http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php...=ST&f=33&t=1115
Then there was the whole Ecliptic issues - some may remember that time period (sorry I don't have the thread link ready, but if you search you can find it under the playtest comments topic).
If you say you meant no offense then I will take none. We haven't abandoned the project.Duane Eggert
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07-25-2003, 07:47 AM #12
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I will see what I can do with it.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: When Are We Going To Hear Something New??? [36#1823]
> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at:
> http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=36&t=1823
>
> irdeggman wrote:
> Eosin the Red (Randy)
>
> I found Jan`s proposals on maintenance costs and here they are. I hope
that you can get a "work around" out of it. Something I`d add
though is that shipyards count as holdings just as seaports do. I work at a
naval shipyard and know how expensive they are to maintain. The skill
necesary to build ships don`t really translate well into other trades. They
do somewhat but the tradesman will not be able to build ships as well if
they are too far removed from that skill.
>
> p. 90 Table 5-4: Asset maintenance costs - strike maintenance/season.
These costs no longer apply. Build cost remains the same.
>
> p. 90-91 Constructions. Entries for Fortifications and Shipyards.
Fortifications (Province): Add a final sentence: "Creating fortifications
with levels above the province level costs twice as much for the levels that
exceed the province level for instance, a fortification (7) in a province
(4) would cost 80 GB; 32 GB for the first four levels and 48 for the
remaining three." Fortifications (Holding): Add a final sentence: "As with
province fortifications, fortification levels exceeding the province level
costs twice as much." Shipyards: Strike the third sentence. Replace with
"Creating a shipyard with a level higher than the province level costs twice
the amount for levels above the province level."
>
>
> Domain Maintenance Costs
> The administrative costs of maintaining a domain covers the standard
expenses that a regent is expected to meet, such as payrolls, maintaining
buildings, roads, and other general-purpose domain costs. This is all rolled
into the domain maintenance total. For every three full provinces or
holdings a domain consists of (regardless of the level of said holding or
province), the maintenance cost is 1 GB per season. A few other domain
components beyond provinces and holdings may count as such for domain-level
purposes. A fortification, palace, or seaport is each counted as an
additional holding for domain maintenance purposes, as is an embassy or a
spy network.
>
>
> I hope this helps, it is not an revision to the BRCS but it might be
something that you can use until it is revised.
>
> -Duane
>
>
>
> Birthright-l Archives:
http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
>
>Hello, I guess I gotta have a sig.
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07-27-2003, 09:09 AM #13
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Eosin:
I don't have RoE handy, or the Illien sourcebook, but a certain amount of tweaking should be expected anyway to get into line with the 3rd Ed rules.
Off hand, I would think that a palace would cut costs: A level four court operating out of a level three palace would have an effective rating of seven, and only cost 5.5 in upkeep.
Also, unifying the Guilt holding would increase the value of the trade route to 3.5, and make possible a total of three trade routes, for a possible total income of 10.5 right there.
Illien should be able to generate: 7 GB (province) plus 2 1/3 GB (Law) plus 4 2/3 GB (Temple) plus 4 2/3 GB (Guild) plus 10.5 GB (three trade routes). That's 29 1/6 GB for a fully unified, maximum production level 7/0 province. Obviously, Illien COULD be self supporting, but that doesn't make it so.
Uncle Hyena
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07-28-2003, 07:47 PM #14
To Eosin the Red, concerning Ilien and maintenance:
Ilien IS a problem for supporting itself, especially given its expectations as the largest city on the southern coast (east of the Imperial City, anyways). One would expect it to have a good court (not for its own benefit so much as for the prestige of hosting diplomatic talks, balls, festivals, etc.), a seaport, highways, and shipyards. For one things, it's the only place developed enough to build galleons with a level 7 shipyard (and that's only by stretching the rules a bit; a 15GB galleon requires a shipyard of Level 7.5...so round down, it could be done). If that's not an issue, drop the shipyards to level 3 (big enough to build caravels). As for seaports and highways - the Guilds could easily cover those costs.
In my own campiagns, I see Ilien as a county that is barely scraping by. They're small and neutral, depending on diplomacy and goodwill from their neighbors to survive. Not a major player, unless they pull off some good mutual benefits. Rogr Aglondier, for example, could certainly ask for some gold from neighboring regents in exchange for his services as a source regent. And then there's tribute from El-Hadid and the temples of Ilien, as well as fees for his hosting of diplomatic talks and what not. In short, a creative and/or savvy regent of Ilien could think of a few ways to squeeze a few gold bars from other regents to supplement his low profits.
On the other hand, low taxes in such a situation are a joke. High taxes are far more realistic, and being such a major metropolis, is that really unreasonable, even for a good regent?
Expenses are expenses, and I don't think the maintenance rules should be dropped because of a single case of low profit. It's just Ilien's particular challenge, and an interesting one if you ask me.
Hope these ideas help.
-Osprey
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