love campaign but the rules?

[faehew]

ok for thos estil not convinced about urban areas lets go at it from a different angle. a province of 8 could still be very rural at 5o poeple square mile. yet they still produce far less than their rural brethren in the next provence of 1 level. what is your argument then.

[Lawgiver]

I don't follow the question.

Lets start from scratch. An average province is 30-50 miles long. So lets use 40 miles for our example. Should you be able to make your province perfectly square you would have 1600 square miles (40x40). Now a level 8 province has a population of 55-70 thousand people. We'll use the midpoint of 62,500. Thus you have 39.0625 people per square mile, assuming you have a perfectly even distribution of population (an EXTREMELY outlandish assumption!), which may still qualify as a rural region.

For a level 1 province (1-4,00 people... well use 2,500) you have an average of 1.5625 people per square mile.

I'm assuming you are trying to say if you had a rural level 8 and a rural level 1 what's the difference in expenses...

The difference is (besides the fact that you are using unrealistic logic to have a level 8 rural area...) you have created a new set of expenses to reduce your income. By spreading the 62,500 people out you have made it far harder to generate income for the people. There is no central market, you have increased the cost of transporting goods, divided your labor forces, and sent your economy down the toilet.

The upkeep for a realm of 5, 1 level proivinces is identical to a realm with 5, level 8 provinces = 1GB. Assuming you tax at a moderate level...the difference is your 5 level 1 provinces produce and average of 5GB while your 5 level 8 produce and average of 32.5 GB. Your statement that higher levels don't earn a higher level of taxes doesn't make any sense to me. Whats the problem?

[faehew]

try looking at some primary history sources. granted your going to have towns in a level 8 provence, but the majority of it could still be rural. to say my example wouldnt have market is ridiculace. your own example of 5 provences proves my point. how can 5 level eight provences produce 6.5 times as many gb than 5 1st level provences. they have 25x the population. that means that they are 1 fourth as productive. that is silly. historicly wrong.

[Lawgiver]

My point is you are using fallable logic. You can't say the income is flawed and not say the maintenance isn't flawed. If you apply the same rules for income that you propose as you do to expenses you have SERIOUS problems. The ratio of expenses for 5 1st level provinces isn't the same as 5 8th level provinces. If you were to say that the 8th provinces are 25 times as productive then the same would hold true that they would be 25 times as expensive. Thus your 5 8th level provinces would cost 125 GB (5GB for the 1st level maintenance x 25 times the population). Obviously that is absurd. The growth in population is not directly proportional to the growth in income or expenses.


As far as needing a history lesson... I'll hold my tongue. But generally within a 45 mile radius you would have a larger central town/city centering around a ruling lord's keep. The rural areas were in the outlying farm land. Generally though the goods the farmers wouldn't consume would be collected as taxes or transported to a market in a town. Thus the 'urban' areas. Which urban areas are more expensive to maintain than rural areas. You say that you still have to have road in rural areas, but the cobblestone streets of cities is by far more expensive than a dirt path to a farm house in the weeds. Additionally your roads in the rural areas are more like two ruts from wagons than the maintenanced roads of an 'urban' area.

[faehew]

what? you totaly misread and switched what i was saying. the system is all flawed. but with your flawed logic states that an 8th level provence, which realisticly has about half rural half urban. the rural population, if it produced all the income(meaning that all urbanites are roaming mindlessly in the streets) they still are only half as productive as their rual brethren in a level 1 provence. i feel that there should not be a upkeep. it should be already figured in. i feel that the population for provence levels be about 5,000 or so per level and get rid of the upkeep.

[Lord Eldred]

I think that is what Lawgiver is trying to say. The upkeep that is figured in means that the higher the province level the more the upkeep costs thus lower productivity reflected by the already figured in upkeep costs.

[Lawgiver]

Didn't I say that repeatedly in the other posts? I thought I made my point clear enough... Oh well. :P

[Lord Eldred]

I thought that you were clear enough but Faehew doesn't seem to get it.