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  1. #1
    Special Guest (Donor) morgramen's Avatar
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    Is it just me, or do temples seem to play second fiddle to the regents in most games?

    It always seems that the landed regent commands the temple to perform action, and dictates to them how things ought ot be. It is my considered opinion, that this tradition should be rethought.

    Any regent worthy of his crown and padded cushion ought to fear his temple! The church should have real authority, and it has been my experience that players seldom take this approach.

    Haelyn's temples are especially powerful in poitics, and the simple act of angering the clergy could result in excommunication - a powerful and disasterous outcome for any regent.

    Regents can certainyl bandy around the temples, but they chould not be permitted to simply make demands upon the faith - especially the Haelyn temples in Anuire, Erik in the north, and so on.

    Watch the movie "Elisabeth" with Cate Blanchet (or whatever her name is...) She challenges the predominant catholic church throughout, but does not place demands upon them. Indeed, even when her greatest detractors had to be 'removed" from negotaitons, it was her spymaster who did the work, without her knowledge!

    The point, Temples have the power, the people, and the God on their side. The regent has the crown, the birthright, and the blessing of the church. He had best keep faith if he wants to keep his crown.
    "You need people of intelligence on this mission... quest... thing."

  2. #2
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    Historically, rulers have exerted as much influence over the church as the church has over the rulers. For the first few centuries of the church, local rulership usually appointed bishops and abbots to their respective positions. The church hierarchy was filled with aristocracy for the longest time, often direct relatives to the rulers. Not even the Pope was immune to this practice, particularly the popes appointed by whoever happened to be the Holy Roman Emporer at the time after about the 10th century.

    The church should wield influence over regents, often controlling them in some manner. But, a good regent will be able to shrug off this control and reverse it. Always up for a good intrigue.
    Explain how this is a signature, its not my handwriting.

    The hardest part was teaching the bunnies to hug. -Duke Phillips

  3. #3
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    The lack of temple authority was one of the reasons for the reworking of the temple structure in my campaign.
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

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    But unless the landed regent is an anti-thesis of the religion itself,the temple should not interfere with politics.The only time the church should get involved in "wordly" affairs is when their is a direct threat to the church and the religion.Unfortunately in a lot of circumstances the church gets involved in things that it should seperate itself from.That is the influence of man.If you are a Regent and you make fair requests of the church,especially when it is something the church is supposed to be doing anyways,then as the landed regent you need to flex YOUR power.
    "Victory has a thousand fathers,defeat is an orphan."

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    In my campaign, things seem to revolve around the church. While the church does not have direct control, it does have a member on Council. And since my campaign has rule by Council, the one vote and influence has a great effect on what is done and not done.
    Lord Eldred
    High Councilor of the
    United Provinces of Cerilia
    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

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    In the campaign I run, I just try to keep priests as authoritative as they deserve. The Western Imperial Temple, for example, easily ranks among the most powerful and influential Anuirean regents in my campaign. On the other hand, the Church of Storm's Height lacks the political clout to dictate policy.

    There's also the matter of what regent is involved. I had a guy playing the Duke of Tuornen who fell into a really bad position. He was highly vulnerable. He made matters worse by antagonizing the Archprelate of the WIT. It got so bad he was excommunicated and lost his domain not too long after. The church's influence can vary depending on the strength of a given monarch.
    Andy C

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    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    A couple of negative agitates ought to keep the regent busy. With the preists free agitate every turn a regent will at least have to spend the resources to counter the attack on his rule. That should be enough to at least get the regent's attention.
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  8. #8
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    Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

    In my campaign, things seem to revolve around the church. While the church does not have direct control, it does have a member on Council. And since my campaign has rule by Council, the one vote and influence has a great effect on what is done and not done.
    ...and since the provinces themselves are united under Haelyn it poses quite a bit of opportunity for enemies of Haelyn's to strike at us. My character is also a target for the other sects and religions since she is well known. The other side to that is she is kind of numb to that fact. She still thinks she is just a simple priest doing Haelyn's. The reality of her post is just starting to take effect on her. She is learning that politics always accompany religion. Does anyone disagree, agree, difference?
    Abbess Allessandra
    from the United Provinces of Haelyn
    "On your knees...to pray!"

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    I am about to make myself very unpopular.....But as long as mortal man runs it,organized religion is the bane of any society,for good and bad.It is in my opinion that the church,no matter what church it is,should not interfere with wordly affairs except where it directly involves the deities tenents.But unfortunately the churches ran by man always seems to put their own ambitions before their deities'.

    I would find it very uncomfortable to live next door to a nation run by people full of self-delusion who mixes what they want for that of a God.I do not try to harm the church,and I do not ask undue requests from it in my domain.But when I ask for something I do expect it to fulfill its obligations,just as I would a guild,or a sourceholder.
    "Victory has a thousand fathers,defeat is an orphan."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    Riegan: I admire you for your boldness and commend you for standing up for your opinion regardless of popularity. I myself am a man of God first and foremost and my opinions disagree with yours. Yet, I respect your conviction and right to your own opinion.
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

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