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  1. #81
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Landsturning" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>
    Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:17 AM


    > Roman Empire (early 4th century)
    > Soldiers per 1,000 population: 7
    >
    > Ottoman Empire (late 17th century)
    > Soldiers per 1,000 population 7
    >
    > France (late 17th century)
    > Soldiers per 1,000 population: 8

    All of these societies are much more organized for manpower mobilization
    than anything medieval. As such, you could imagine that these figures
    reflect the upper limit for Anuire, if you presume the more Roman model that
    some favor, rather than the Anglor-French semi-feudal model, which will get
    you lower numbers, because more labor is directed toward better armed,
    higher level characters.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  2. #82
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 09:31 PM 6/19/2003 +0200, you wrote:

    >Having a bloodine survive for 800 years with noone knowing about it worked
    >in Tolkien, where Aragorn`s forbears survived in a wasteland. there is no
    >such isolated place for someone with a bloodline strength of 80+ to hide
    >in. And I don`t picture Anuire as quite that conservative. Remember that
    >Gondor felt no real need for a king. It was only when the opportunity
    >arose that the wanted Aragon back. And LoTR is a lot more legend-like to
    >me than Birthright.
    >
    >But I guess it`s a matter of personal taste.

    People sometimes want to use the BR bloodline system to represent dynasties
    or other heritable "real world" or fantasy systems of royalty. Bloodline
    is, however, IMO very much a BR construct, so `porting it into another
    system without some pretty serious modification--or trying to relate it
    directly to a fantastic literature like JRRT`s work--isn`t going to be very
    apt. Similarly, the domain level of BR is very much BR-centric. Though
    there are major chunks of it that could be used in any setting it`s
    arguable how functional they`d be. I guess they`d be as workable in
    another campaign world as any other if one came up with a suitable system
    for dealing with RP, but I don`t know how well the describe "reality" or
    the absolute control that an author has over the particulars of his
    novel. In the same way an endless number of write ups can be composed to
    describe Aragorn (or Gandalf, Alice in Wonderland or Jiminy Cricket, for
    that matter) I don`t think any one is going to very satisfactory. Even
    those occasions when a novel has been composed with D&D in mind
    (Salvatore`s work [which I hate] the BR novels [no comment] or Gygax`s
    [anemic] fiction) that have D&D characters written up to support them seem
    to lose something vital in the translation. The domain level as a
    representation for Gondor`s lack of a king would have the same flaccidity.

    Having said that, Aragorn didn`t have a bloodline in the BR sense, and the
    "bloodline" that Tolkien ascribes to him is the legacy of his being one of
    the few remaining Dunedain. He`s a member of a kind of elevated
    race--human, but "chosen" or favored, and definitely superior in several
    ways. It`s a mythological standard--rulers are often attributed mystical
    powers. Those mystical powers, however, come from being chosen by the
    gods, not having actual godly powers and deriving energy from the people
    and places of their domain in a like manner to the way worship works for
    deities. With the exception of the occasional mythological hero that is
    directly descended from a god, that is. Even those characters who have a
    mythic connection to the gods (most obvious in Greek mythology, but
    certainly not limited to that mythos) don`t have a BR bloodline. If one
    wanted to portray various mythological or literary characters in a game
    BR`s bloodline system would probably not be the best way to go.

    Gary

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  3. #83
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    And for the record, I think bloodlines nicely, and flexibly reflect a whole
    group of human notions of rulership almost entirely as is.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  4. #84
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DanMcSorley
    I think you`d do better to look at stats from a country that hasn`t been
    industrialized for a 150 years. It`s going to be hard to find a good
    parallel in the modern world at all, but a modern western power definitely
    isn`t one.
    --
    Daniel McSorley
    Why then is my figure of 6 per thousand not that far off Landsturning's figures?
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Trithemius
    Have you considered the demographic tendencies in "modern industrial
    democratic societies" towards an "ageing population". If you are keen on
    using modern comparisons perhaps examining less developed (and possibly
    serially embattled) countries might provide better comparisons to
    Anuire? There are plenty of places like this in Africa.John Machin
    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
    -----------------------------------
    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
    Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

    I agree that a medieval/renaissance age the "average" life span was significantly lower. However, this is a fantasy world with preistly magic to cure diseases, etc. in place of modern medicine.

    Additionally, I ask why would the designers list the maximum age of humans as 70+2d20 years? Hardly fitting for a typical campaign world...




    Ok yes. My foolish stats SUCK! EVERYBODY PLEASE DROP THE FRIGGIN knocks on my stats! I'm just trying to help not get bashed to peices for irrelevant info. Estimates and percentages are our friends.
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  6. #86
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Lawgiver" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>
    Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:49 PM


    > Why then is my figure of 6 per thousand not that far off Landsturning`s
    figures?

    Its a fluke. You see, corespondence does not always imply causation.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  7. #87
    Birthright Developer
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    On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Lawgiver wrote:
    > Why then is my figure of 6 per thousand not that far off Landsturning`s
    > figures?

    Luck :) You compared France`s modern, industrialized, but at-peace
    figures to his late medieval, constantly in-and-out of war figures. If
    you`d compared them to, say, France in 1917, you would have had a rather
    different result. So you got lucky.
    --
    Daniel McSorley

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