[BIRTHRIGHT] Future BHistory

[Magian]

>Kenneth Gauck wrote:

>Had the
>printing press come to Europe in a 15th century in which the church was
>strong and robust, rather than divided and discredited, it probabaly would
>have sealed Europe into a single faith permenantly.

That is possible. It is a provoking idea to think upon.

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[Magian]

>Gary wrote:
>
>I don`t think there`s a difference between sociological and technological
>advances the way it`s been presented.

I do in the form of the argument thus far. We are arguing that either a
tool or an idea brings about change. Now certainly you have a point because
you touch upon the hole of both our arguments but that has not yet been
brought up by anyone thus far.

>They may not always be in absolute
>alignment with one another, but sociological change is easily viewed as
>"the
>technology of society" and would then just fit in as a category of progress
>along with metallurgy, agriculture or electronics.

I agree that tools and ideas are in relation to one another. As for an
absolute I would be wary to agree with it in any argument.


>Some advances in
>technological fields lead to social developments, some social developments
>lead to technical advances. It`s a mutual push-pull just as other
>categories of technology act on one another.

I am saying that it is the ideas of men that create them all. Tools,
technology, social developments, and even new ideas all come from the ideas
of men. That which we have no ideas about fall into the category of the
unknown and unseen, or unpercieved. Therefore how can we even talk about
anything that we have not yet first had an idea about?

>Better metallurgy leads to
>improved mining techniques which leads to better ore production which
>improves metallurgy again. A slow rise in literacy creates the need for
>the
>printing press which in turn improves literacy and increases the need for
>even better printing presses. Drawing a distinction between technology and
>social development is artificial, and doesn`t reflect anything meaningful
>about society or technology. In fact, it disassociates the forces that are
>in reality part of an interactive system.
>

All lines are artificial. However first before we can draw a line we must
have an idea of what we are drawing a line around or through or between.
Even the act of attempting to eliminate a conceptual line requires an idea
of what is delinated by this line. The entire argument you have just made
is artifical also. How you contemplate the world you live in through your
senses is through your ideas. Anything with logic whether it be valid,
invalid, sound, or unsound comes through ideas. I ask you, which can a man
live without and still be considered a man? His ideas or his tools?

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[Magian]

>(P.S. Hi everybody! ;))
>
>--
>John Machin

I was wondering where you have been. I was actually about to ask. Ever
since you helped me with the Ars Magicka aging system I have been hooked on
that game line. Thanks

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[ryancaveney]

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, John Machin wrote:

> (P.S. Hi everybody! ;))


Welcome back! My plea for divine intervention appears to have paid off. =)


Ryan Caveney

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Starfox" <stephen_starfox@YAHOO.SE>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:39 PM


> Germany was never stabilized, but any of a huge numbers of pretenders to
> power could have unified it at any point. That this was not done can be
seen
> as an on the European political stage - since states like France, England,
> and Spain united.

France was united by the Hundred Years War. England was united the Norman
Conquest. Spain was united (it wasn`t completly united, except between 1580
and 1640) in the aftermath of the reconquesta. This suggests that for
Anuire to unite there needs to be a forign invader. The obvious invader is
the Gorgon, and as I have suggested at other times in the forum, that is
sufficient to explain why the Gorgon is quiet. He want to keep his profile
low enough to prevent a reaction that will reconstitute the empire.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[DanMcSorley]

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
> This suggests that for Anuire to unite there needs to be a forign
> invader. The obvious invader is the Gorgon, and as I have suggested at
> other times in the forum, that is sufficient to explain why the Gorgon
> is quiet. He want to keep his profile low enough to prevent a reaction
> that will reconstitute the empire.

It`s also possible that he gets everything he wants from the empire as it
is now. He could come in and conquor all these lands, and try to hold
them, but it would never work, there would be rebellions every time he
turned his back. As it is now, every person in Anuire, and some in
Brechtur, Khinasi, and Rjurik lands, fears him. That`s almost as good.
To a being as close to godhood as Raesene is, it`s probably like worship.
He probably even gets RP from it. A hundred and sixty thousand Avanilians
may respect and pay homage to Darian Avan, but a million and a half
Anuireans pray every night that tomorrow isn`t the day the Gorgon crosses
the Maesil.
--
Daniel McSorley

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[Lawgiver]

The Old Kingdom of Egypt lasted nearly a thousand years (3100 B.C. - 2125 B.C.)
The Middle Kingdom of Egypt lasted nearly 600 years (2125 B.C. - 1550 B.C.)

Still their stability was largely related isolationism. A region like Anuire with transcontinental trade, a variety of language, culture and most importantly a vast array of religions would have great difficulty staying at such an equilibrium. If Anuire is a place of political volitility as outlined in the boxed set and novels, it would be a logical conclusion that after 800 years of chaos without a central authority one would barely be able to recognize the Empire as it was in the days of Roele.

[DanMcSorley]

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, John Machin wrote:
> The Roele dynasty can claim, on far more solid grounds than any
> historical monarch, to have a divine mandate. We should also remember
> that the patron deity of the Anuireans is also the patron of monarchs.
> This is likely to prompt Anuireans towards greater respect for and
> obedience to the imperial `centre`.

But the Roeles have all but died out, and the remaining claimants all have
about an even link to Roele blood between them. Which is not much, after
all this time. And the Anuireans have a condition that real aristocrats
didn`t- if there are none of the "main line" of kings left, there are
plenty of other people around that also have a proveable divine mandate.
That kind of leaves us back where we started.

Good to see you post, John. Are you back in NZ for the, er, winter? How
long has it been since you`ve seen a summer, anyway? :)
--
Daniel McSorley

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[Peter Lubke]

On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 14:44, Daniel McSorley wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, John Machin wrote:
> > The Roele dynasty can claim, on far more solid grounds than any
> > historical monarch, to have a divine mandate. We should also remember
> > that the patron deity of the Anuireans is also the patron of monarchs.
> > This is likely to prompt Anuireans towards greater respect for and
> > obedience to the imperial `centre`.

It`s been, what 500+ years?, and the chamberlain?(s) have refused to
acknowledge ANY claim by any person in all that time. Obviously, legally
the laws of succession involve far more than some tenuous claim to some
shred of Roele bloodline. The TRUE Roele bloodline has been "missing"
since the time of Michael. There`s a mystery / opportunity for you. What
identifies the TRUE Roele line. How (or in fact is) the identification
of such a signal (blood ability) passed down. Why is arguably, one of
the most powerful blooded character on the Continent (and ALL his
forebears if any) content to play a waiting game in the wings as 2IC?

>
> But the Roeles have all but died out, and the remaining claimants all have
> about an even link to Roele blood between them. Which is not much, after
> all this time. And the Anuireans have a condition that real aristocrats
> didn`t- if there are none of the "main line" of kings left, there are
> plenty of other people around that also have a proveable divine mandate.
> That kind of leaves us back where we started.

Of course one possibility is: that the legally correct and true claimant
is still alive, (and living in the Crown).

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[Birthright-L]

From: "Peter Lubke" <peterlubke@OPTUSNET.COM.AU>

> It`s been, what 500+ years?, and the chamberlain?(s) have refused to
> acknowledge ANY claim by any person in all that time. Obviously, legally
> the laws of succession involve far more than some tenuous claim to some
> shred of Roele bloodline. The TRUE Roele bloodline has been "missing"
> since the time of Michael. There`s a mystery / opportunity for you. What
> identifies the TRUE Roele line. How (or in fact is) the identification
> of such a signal (blood ability) passed down. Why is arguably, one of
> the most powerful blooded character on the Continent (and ALL his
> forebears if any) content to play a waiting game in the wings as 2IC?
>
>

And ths is the silly part.Having a bloodine survive for 800 years with noone
knowing about it worked in Tolkien, where Aragorn`s forbears survived in a
wasteland. there is no such isolated place for someone with a bloodline
strength of 80+ to hide in. And I don`t picture Anuire as quite that
conservative. Remember that Gondor felt no real need for a king. It was only
when the opportunity arose that the wanted Aragon back. And LoTR is a lot
more legend-like to me than Birthright.

But I guess it`s a matter of personal taste.

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