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  1. #1
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Daniel McSorley" <mcsorley@OKKOD.PAIR.COM>
    Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 11:05 AM


    > Suppose that, relatively soon after this, the concept of the pike square
    > was introduced to Anuirean military thought. This formation of
    > highly-trained, professional soldiers dominated European warfare for quite
    > some time,

    In Flanders and Switzerland only. No other nation produced pike formations
    that did anything special. They are in fact much like the warcard pikes.
    Effective pikes are the result of specific social and political conditions.
    The Brechts probabaly have effective pike. This would go far to explain the
    importance of the burger and the irrelevance of the herren. In Anuire the
    cavalry is still dominant, I and wouldn`t take effective pike any further
    than Endier and Ilien, probabaly run by Brecht mercenaries.

    > Suppose that, at the same time, the Mhor`s heir, Michael Mhoried, weds by
    > arrangement Aubrae Avan, uniting two of the oldest houses of Anuire.

    This kind of thing has to happen every generation. Who else do such people
    marry?

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  2. #2
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Daniel McSorley" <mcsorley@OKKOD.PAIR.COM>
    Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 11:05 AM


    > Suppose that, relatively soon after this, the concept of the pike square
    > was introduced to Anuirean military thought. This formation of
    > highly-trained, professional soldiers dominated European warfare for quite
    > some time,

    In Flanders and Switzerland only. No other nation produced pike formations
    that did anything special. They are in fact much like the warcard pikes.
    Effective pikes are the result of specific social and political conditions.
    The Brechts probabaly have effective pike. This would go far to explain the
    importance of the burger and the irrelevance of the herren. In Anuire the
    cavalry is still dominant, I and wouldn`t take effective pike any further
    than Endier and Ilien, probabaly run by Brecht mercenaries.

    > Suppose that, at the same time, the Mhor`s heir, Michael Mhoried, weds by
    > arrangement Aubrae Avan, uniting two of the oldest houses of Anuire.

    This kind of thing has to happen every generation. Who else do such people
    marry?

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  3. #3
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    On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
    > > Suppose that, relatively soon after this, the concept of the pike square
    > > was introduced to Anuirean military thought. This formation of
    > > highly-trained, professional soldiers dominated European warfare for quite
    > > some time,
    >
    > In Flanders and Switzerland only. No other nation produced pike formations
    > that did anything special. They are in fact much like the warcard pikes.
    > Effective pikes are the result of specific social and political conditions.
    > The Brechts probabaly have effective pike. This would go far to explain the
    > importance of the burger and the irrelevance of the herren. In Anuire the
    > cavalry is still dominant, I and wouldn`t take effective pike any further
    > than Endier and Ilien, probabaly run by Brecht mercenaries.
    >
    > > Suppose that, at the same time, the Mhor`s heir, Michael Mhoried, weds by
    > > arrangement Aubrae Avan, uniting two of the oldest houses of Anuire.
    >
    > This kind of thing has to happen every generation. Who else do such people
    > marry?

    You`re no fun at all :) If you don`t want to play, just say so. A swing
    in history, as described fictionally at least, needs some sort of inciting
    incident or conditions. So what would you suggest that would be important
    enough to alter Anuire`s historical course? Either to eventually reunite
    the Empire, or form a new kingdom of some sort, or so provoke the Gorgon
    that he came in and wiped out the whole mess?
    --
    Daniel McSorley

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  4. #4
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 12:21 AM 6/17/2003 -0400, Daniel McSorley wrote:

    >A swing in history, as described fictionally at least, needs some sort of
    >inciting incident or conditions. So what would you suggest that would be
    >important enough to alter Anuire`s historical course? Either to
    >eventually reunite the Empire, or form a new kingdom of some sort, or so
    >provoke the Gorgon that he came in and wiped out the whole mess?

    If the Gorgon ever came in and tried to take over much more of Anuire that
    might be enough to rally the fractured duchies (etc.) together into an
    empire. Other things that might have an influence would be a large scale
    invasion from Aduria or another continent (surely those civilizations that
    pushed the five races to Cerilia aren`t all quiescent indefinitely) or a
    massive plague a la the Black Death that totally reshapes the nature of
    society.

    Gary

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  5. #5
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Daniel McSorley" <mcsorley@OKKOD.PAIR.COM>
    Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 11:21 PM


    > So what would you suggest that would be important enough to alter
    > Anuire`s historical course? Either to eventually reunite the Empire,
    > or form a new kingdom of some sort, or so provoke the Gorgon
    > that he came in and wiped out the whole mess?

    One of the models of Renaissance I use is the return of Roman law, and the
    declining interest in feudal law. In Anuire, that means a renewed interest
    in the structure of the Empire. Of course the leading families have always
    kept an eye on the struggle to gain the throne, but it was not a thing
    liable to happen. With the renewed interest in Imperial law, and Imperial
    institutions, the common people are nostalgic for the empire and there is
    for the first time in a long time a real possibility of an actual emperor on
    the throne. This greatly raises the stakes in the competition for the best
    claim to the throne. The interest in provincial identity delcines (Mhorien,
    Coeranian, Endieran) and claimants to the throne become popular figures as
    the people stake an interest in the restoration of the old empire. Never
    the less, the old feudal institutions are strong and will prove resistant to
    genuine centralization. This raises the possibility of creating a
    figurehead emperor from one of the smaller realms, so that the emperor is a
    titular figure only. Factions play out and the move towards a restoration
    and the end of a long interegnum could be the backdrop to a campaign, or its
    central focus. As you might observe, I think I ideas and social structures
    drive historical change, not technology.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  6. #6
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    A constant cause of suspension of disbeleif forme in fantasy worlds is the
    lack of progression. I mean, over a thousand years, the political map of the
    world changes beyond beleif. Of course, longer lived races like elves and
    dwarfs can quiet things down a bit - but not as much as they do in most
    worlds.

    Marriage CAN definitely create great empires - just look at the Habsburgs.

    I find the history of Anuire quite inconcevable, actually. The only way I
    can motivate it to myself is if the Gorgon comes in and raids Anuirte to
    oblivion every 30 years or something - which he does, according to some
    sources.

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  7. #7
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    As you might observe, I think I ideas and social structures
    >drive historical change, not technology.
    >
    >Kenneth Gauck


    I am guilty of the same.

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    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  8. #8
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    On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
    > As you might observe, I think I ideas and social structures drive
    > historical change, not technology.

    That`s interesting, because I`ve thought that inventions tend to drive
    social change. Triremes made Athens a democracy. The stirrup helped lead
    to feudalism. The printing press knocked down monolithic religion in
    western Europe. Guns did away with the aristocracy, first indirectly (by
    making wealthy landowners less useful militarily & politically) and then
    rather more directly :). But then, I`ve always been an inventions and
    technology geek, so it`s probably inevitable I`d think this way.

    --
    Daniel McSorley

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  9. #9
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    >Daniel McSorley wrote:

    >
    >That`s interesting, because I`ve thought that inventions tend to drive
    >social change. Triremes made Athens a democracy.

    Wasn`t it the philosophy of the times that made democracy popular?

    >The stirrup helped lead
    >to feudalism.

    Without the idea of chivalry how far would the stirrup have gone?

    >The printing press knocked down monolithic religion in
    >western Europe.

    OK, but it was the ideas that the presses brought to others that brought the
    change.


    >Guns did away with the aristocracy, first indirectly (by
    >making wealthy landowners less useful militarily & politically) and then
    >rather more directly :).

    Political ideologies drove the persons with the guns to shoot at who they
    shot at.

    >But then, I`ve always been an inventions and
    >technology geek, so it`s probably inevitable I`d think this way.
    >

    sure

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    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  10. #10
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ---- Original Message -----
    From: "Stephen Starfox" <stephen_starfox@YAHOO.SE>
    Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:56 AM


    > I find the history of Anuire quite inconcevable, actually. The only way I
    > can motivate it to myself is if the Gorgon comes in and raids Anuirte to
    > oblivion every 30 years or something - which he does, according to some
    > sources.

    Germany perpetuated itself as a realm of small states for hundreds of years.
    Anuire probabaly has partable inheritance so that a generation after Avanil
    and Alamie were united, the elder son would get Avanil and the younger would
    get Alamie. Within realms, one son gets the big title, and other children
    are either set up in other holdings, or they are made counts and get a
    province plus estates in other places. Its one of the reasons that there is
    not much land directly held by the regent. The fact that daughters appear
    in the geneologies of the various dynasties makes it easy to both forge
    theses alliances and yet maintain a sense that the current heir of realm x
    is a direct decendent of founder x.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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