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  1. #1
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    Yesterday, my players (lvl 17) confronted the Gorgon. It was intended to be
    a smackdown, but in actuality was a very close match.

    I used the version from the RRCS, only halving the DC of the save on the
    gaze attack. Two of the players actually rolled "1" on their saves and
    failed vs. the (modified) DC of 24. The two characters not turned to stone
    attacked, but in practice, only the paladin (with Extra Smiting, Holy
    Weapon, and a modified Cha of 32) could actually hope to hit. The other
    character (a ranger) went down in the first round (he took some 200 points
    of damage). Over the course of four rounds, the paladin inflicted 1128 hp -
    but stoneybutt had some contingencies that allowed him to (barely) stand up.

    In return, the Gorgon dished out some 500 hits (Cha 32 and lvl 17 gives a
    very powerful Lay on Hands", which accounts for the huge amount of damage it
    took to bring the paladin down.)

    Now this was in a very well-equipped party, so I think the challenge rating
    of 28 is by no means too high. Actually, his EL ought to be the same as his
    character level, which is a lot higher - but I guess he`s very underequipped
    for his level, according to DnD standards.

    Note that the Gorgon wanted to lose in the end, and wanted to make the fight
    look fair (for plot reasons), so he avoided the more outrageous magics -
    like Tenser`s Transformation. Basically, this was a stand-up fight.

    Need I mention that this was the culmination of a two-and-a-half year
    campaign geared towards this very confrontation? And that the campaign will
    now only need to be wrapped up, which should take a session or two. And then
    I`ll be done with Birthright this time around. I might return, but then I`d
    probably move the timeline forward into the Baroque.

    /Carl

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  2. #2
    Karl Shenk graf von Stauf
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    The other character (a ranger) went down in the first round (he took some 200 points
    of damage). Over the course of four rounds, the paladin inflicted 1128 hp -

    this thread is the reason why im writing these lines... lets assume that the paladin (17th lvl) is confronting gorgon (brrrr) and is actually making all shots strike true. 1128 hp per four rounds makes a 282 hp per round. if the paladin has 3 attacks per round, we end up with a 94 hp damage per single hit. ok, how on earth did the paladin managed that, even with the most outrageous stats and eq one can imagine?

  3. #3
    Karl Shenk graf von Stauf
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    The other character (a ranger) went down in the first round (he took some 200 points
    of damage). Over the course of four rounds, the paladin inflicted 1128 hp -

    this thread is the reason why im writing these lines... lets assume that the paladin (17th lvl) is confronting gorgon (brrrr) and is actually making all shots strike true. 1128 hp per four rounds makes a 282 hp per round. if the paladin has 3 attacks per round, we end up with a 94 hp damage per single hit. ok, how on earth did the paladin managed that, even with the most outrageous stats and eq one can imagine?

  4. #4
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    On Fri, 16 May 2003, Karl Shenk graf von Staufenberg wrote:
    > The other character (a ranger) went down in the first round (he took
    > some 200 points of damage). Over the course of four rounds, the
    > paladin inflicted 1128 hp -
    >
    > this thread is the reason why im writing these lines... lets assume
    > that the paladin (17th lvl) is confronting gorgon (brrrr) and is
    > actually making all shots strike true. 1128 hp per four rounds makes a
    > 282 hp per round. if the paladin has 3 attacks per round, we end up
    > with a 94 hp damage per single hit. ok, how on earth did the paladin
    > managed that, even with the most outrageous stats and eq one can
    > imagine?

    A paladin of that level would have 4 attacks per round, and ACs don`t
    scale as fast as attack bonuses, especially at high levels, so he`ll hit
    with most of them. With a magic weapon, the right feats, buff spells,
    smite evil, and a crit or two over the course of 16 attacks in 4 rounds,
    that amount of damage is very possible. I`ve seen it done at lower
    levels, in convention games. 3e D&D has a power scale rather different
    from the editions that came before, especially at high levels.

    I don`t really like that feel for my BR games, but if that other guy did,
    more power to him.
    --
    Communication is possible only between equals.
    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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  5. #5
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    From: "daniel mcsorley" <mcsorley@CIS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>

    > A paladin of that level would have 4 attacks per round, and ACs don`t
    > scale as fast as attack bonuses, especially at high levels, so he`ll hit
    > with most of them. With a magic weapon, the right feats, buff spells,
    > smite evil, and a crit or two over the course of 16 attacks in 4 rounds,
    > that amount of damage is very possible. I`ve seen it done at lower
    > levels, in convention games. 3e D&D has a power scale rather different
    > from the editions that came before, especially at high levels.
    >
    > I don`t really like that feel for my BR games, but if that other guy did,
    > more power to him.
    > --


    You are on the right track. Also remember Haste, Holy Sword (paladin spell -
    causes double damage to evil targets), Spirited Charge, Divine Wrath, Extra
    Smiting, Tome of Bodily Health, Armor of Command, Tome of Leadership and
    Influcence, etc., etc., ad nauseum. It is certainly possible.

    I wouldn`t really recommend this for anyone elses Birthright game. When I
    first read the Gorgon`s stats in the conversion manual, I gasped - but it
    worked out in the end IMC. But for this game, the theme was to challenge a
    near-god - and it happened. To each his own!

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  6. #6
    Karl Shenk graf von Stauf
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    on may the 16th i read the confr the gorgon msg
    i can see that the paladin has 4 attacks at 17 th lvl, albeit the 4th at a +2 bonus, rendering it almost useless against such opponents... dont forget it's the gorgon we are talking about... now, i know all about the really useful feats (defenders of faith) such as divine might, divine vigor etc, the nice spells like holy sword, smite evil( paladin spell from the sword and sorcery series of books,granding 1 smite atempt) and the great paladin ability to smite evil and last but not least the haste (or mass haste) spell, but this is an optimal configuration... would it apear in a character, it would imply that the character just sceduled the line of feats and spells towards this target and bended his progression around this optimal configuration. The question is how can this produse a character that has actually lived in a campain world and was affected by that, if the character it self was merely gaining lvls towards a predetermined- predifined model?
    i dont want to critisize DMs on how they run their campaigns but realism in a fantasy world is an issue...

  7. #7
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    On Mon, 19 May 2003, Karl Shenk graf von Staufenberg wrote:
    > i dont want to critisize DMs on how they run their campaigns but
    > realism in a fantasy world is an issue...

    Sure it is. That`s why in my game, the gorgon can`t walk, the
    cross-section of his bones isn`t strong enough to support his mass.
    --
    Communication is possible only between equals.
    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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  8. #8
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    Yes, this character has as his campaign goal from day 1 to be the one that
    killed the gorgon. He specialized in monster-slaying from an early age, and
    channeled the entire resources of a very large church (Life and Protection
    of vanale expanded to 100+ holding levels) towards this goal.

    If a player character has a dream, he has a dream!

    /Carl

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  9. #9
    Karl Shenk graf von Stauf
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    this note is in concern with mr dan mc sorley's letter, where he quotes just one line from my message. surely for mr mc sorley that represents the spirit of my posting.
    Truely, communication is possible between equals.

  10. #10
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DanMcSorley


    On Mon, 19 May 2003, Karl Shenk graf von Staufenberg wrote:
    > i dont want to critisize DMs on how they run their campaigns but
    > realism in a fantasy world is an issue...

    Sure it is. That`s why in my game, the gorgon can`t walk, the
    cross-section of his bones isn`t strong enough to support his mass.
    --
    Communication is possible only between equals.
    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu
    "Magic must defeat magic."
    - "Uncle" from the Jackie Chan Adventures cartoons. {I don't want to grow up I'm a Toys R Us kid.}
    Duane Eggert

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