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  1. #1
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    Hello all. Here`s something to ponder. I have been thinking about modifying
    the Dwarves in my world. What i was thinking of is taking away some
    existing abilities and replacing it/them with 1 bonus dice of hp.

    For example, every member of the Dwarf race would get extra hp`s at the
    time of creation, regardless of class. Question, in order to maintain the
    balance, how many extra hp should be added [fixed amount or die roll, type
    of die] and what ability/abilities would this replace?

    thanks for your opinions


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  2. #2
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Birthright-L

    Hello all. Here`s something to ponder. I have been thinking about modifying
    the Dwarves in my world. What i was thinking of is taking away some
    existing abilities and replacing it/them with 1 bonus dice of hp.

    For example, every member of the Dwarf race would get extra hp`s at the
    time of creation, regardless of class. Question, in order to maintain the
    balance, how many extra hp should be added [fixed amount or die roll, type
    of die] and what ability/abilities would this replace?

    thanks for your opinions


    CyberSavant Matrix Guide
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    RingMaster of the star_trek_interactive webring [webring.org]
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    ICQ: 78031576 AIM: cybrsvnt
    Gaming since 1980!

    Imagine. Act. Write. Role-play!
    It depends on what you're trading the bonus hit die for. If it is for their damage reduction (normally a +1 ECL per Savage Species) a single bonus hit die is fairly tame and not quite equivalent. Most of the time a d8 is used for bonus hit die.

    Instead you could increase their hit die size in exchange for the damage reduction. Undead get a d12 vice a d8 so this is probably a reasonable exchange. A first level dwarven fighter would use a d12 instead of a d10 a cleric would use a d10 instead of a d8. Note for a barbarian you could have troubles, a d12 to a d20? But due to their racial tendency towards lawful alignments IMO there are essentially no dwarven barbarians so this potential problem could be eliminated in that way.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #3
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    On Thu, 1 May 2003, irdeggman wrote:
    > Instead you could increase their hit die size in exchange for the
    > damage reduction. Undead get a d12 vice a d8 so this is probably a
    > reasonable exchange. A first level dwarven fighter would use a d12
    > instead of a d10 a cleric would use a d10 instead of a d8. Note for a
    > barbarian you could have troubles, a d12 to a d20? But due to their
    > racial tendency towards lawful alignments IMO there are essentially no
    > dwarven barbarians so this potential problem could be eliminated in
    > that way.

    You always have to account for the dumbass munchkins apparently, who would
    come up with a reason to have a cerilean dwarf barbarian if you made it
    just `one bigger die for hps`. There`s a template, probably half-dragon,
    that provides an increase like this, and it just flat-out states you can`t
    go beyond a d12 as a result of the template.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    On Thu, 1 May 2003, daniel mcsorley wrote:

    > On Thu, 1 May 2003, irdeggman wrote:
    >
    > > Instead you could increase their hit die size in exchange for the
    > > damage reduction. [...] Note for a barbarian you could have
    > > troubles, a d12 to a d20?
    >
    > There`s a template, probably half-dragon, that provides an increase
    > like this, and it just flat-out states you can`t go beyond a d12 as a
    > result of the template.

    That`s one approach.

    Another thing I would suggest is to note that with each increase of die
    size, the average result increases by one; lacking d14s and d16s, I`d say
    the next higher die types above d12 are actually d12+1, d12+2, etc.

    An amusing alternative to a d14 might be 2d6+d4-2, which has the same
    range (1-14) and average (7.5) as d14 would, but produces extreme values
    far less often (1s and 14s are slightly less than 1/10th as frequent on
    this as on a "real" d14, and 7s and 8s are about twice as frequent).

    Using a d20 but rerolling anything above 14 (or 16 or 18) is probably the
    best plan, but it`s good to have more options. =)


    Ryan Caveney

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  5. #5
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    On Fri, 2 May 2003, Ryan B. Caveney wrote:
    > Another thing I would suggest is to note that with each increase of die
    > size, the average result increases by one; lacking d14s and d16s, I`d say
    > the next higher die types above d12 are actually d12+1, d12+2, etc.
    >
    > An amusing alternative to a d14 might be 2d6+d4-2, which has the same
    > range (1-14) and average (7.5) as d14 would, but produces extreme values
    > far less often (1s and 14s are slightly less than 1/10th as frequent on
    > this as on a "real" d14, and 7s and 8s are about twice as frequent).
    >
    > Using a d20 but rerolling anything above 14 (or 16 or 18) is probably the
    > best plan, but it`s good to have more options. =)

    Yeah, you know, that was kinda scary; I know enough about dice mechanics
    that my two quarters of probability and statistics at college were really
    easy, but you just blew my mind.
    --
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  6. #6
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>
    Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 4:39 PM


    > Hello all. Here`s something to ponder. I have been thinking about
    > modifying the Dwarves in my world. What i was thinking of is
    > taking away some existing abilities and replacing it/them with 1
    > bonus dice of hp.

    My take on this would be to reflect dwarven long life and craft emphisis
    with a level of expert based on craft excellence rather than just a spare
    hit die. This nicely handles the question of dwarven craft bonuses, hit
    dice, and ECL modifier all in one approach.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  7. #7
    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    On Fri, 2 May 2003, daniel mcsorley wrote:

    > Yeah, you know, that was kinda scary; I know enough about dice
    > mechanics that my two quarters of probability and statistics at
    > college were really easy, but you just blew my mind.

    *grin* Pleased to be of service. I love probability and statistics.
    I have bucketloads of dice, but sometimes I think I have more fun
    calculating what might happen when you roll them than when actually doing
    so. I guess that makes me a mathematician. :}

    I have a friend from college whose personal game uses a "d24" combat
    system -- you can pick any combination of dice you want whose total number
    of faces add up to 24. 2d12, 3d8, 4d6, 6d4, d4+d20, d4+d8+d12, 3d4+2d6,
    etc. This allows you great flexibility in choosing the exact shape of the
    probability distribution of your "notional die", and also gives everyone
    something useful to do with all of those polyhedral dice they`ve collected
    over the years but never seem to use.

    BTW, professionally, he`s a chaos theorist. =)


    Ryan

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  8. #8
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    From: "Ryan B. Caveney" <ryanb@CYBERCOM.NET>

    > I have a friend from college whose personal game uses a "d24" combat
    > system -- you can pick any combination of dice you want whose total number
    > of faces add up to 24. 2d12, 3d8, 4d6, 6d4, d4+d20, d4+d8+d12, 3d4+2d6,
    > etc. This allows you great flexibility in choosing the exact shape of the
    > probability distribution of your "notional die", and also gives everyone
    > something useful to do with all of those polyhedral dice they`ve collected
    > over the years but never seem to use.
    >

    Did anyoneever try 24d1? Since allthe dice always show 1, the total is
    always 24.

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  9. #9
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 11:14 PM 5/10/2003 +0200, Starfox wrote:

    >Did anyoneever try 24d1? Since allthe dice always show 1, the total is
    >always 24.

    LOL. At first I discounted the 4-6dX mechanic as being a bit goofy, but
    after some consideration I wonder if one of the problems with the d20
    system is... well, the d20. The flat results of a single die make for an
    even chance of any particular number on the die, so the "degree of success"
    winds up being somewhat flaccid. If one used 2d10 rather than a d20 one
    could get a very similar range of results, but with a simple bell curve
    that would provide a more "natural" range of results. It would also be
    easily incorporated into the d20 system. None of the rules regarding
    critical hits, skill checks, saving throws, etc. would necessarily need to
    be changed. Of course, the likelihood of critical hits would change, but I
    think that might not be a bad thing. The more I think on it the more I
    like it....

    Gary

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  10. #10
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    Gary wrote:

    > At 11:14 PM 5/10/2003 +0200, Starfox wrote:
    >
    >> Did anyoneever try 24d1? Since allthe dice always show 1, the total is
    >> always 24.
    >
    > LOL. At first I discounted the 4-6dX mechanic as being a bit goofy, but
    > after some consideration I wonder if one of the problems with the d20
    > system is... well, the d20. The flat results of a single die make for an
    > even chance of any particular number on the die, so the "degree of
    > success"
    > winds up being somewhat flaccid. If one used 2d10 rather than a d20 one
    > could get a very similar range of results, but with a simple bell curve
    > that would provide a more "natural" range of results. It would also be
    > easily incorporated into the d20 system. None of the rules regarding
    > critical hits, skill checks, saving throws, etc. would necessarily
    > need to
    > be changed. Of course, the likelihood of critical hits would change,
    > but I
    > think that might not be a bad thing. The more I think on it the more I
    > like it....
    > Gary

    If a "1" is always a failure or a miss in an attack, would you fail/miss
    when only 1 of the 2D10 rolls a 1 which is then double as likely as if
    rolling a D20, or only if BOTH show a 1?
    bye
    Michael

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