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Thread: Court Bard
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04-09-2003, 12:06 PM #11
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irdeggman wrote:
>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1549
>irdeggman wrote:
>I have to disagree with the Khinasi view of bards. As I recall in the Cities in the Sun bards in Khinasi culture are portrayed as beggers and street "magicians". They are basically looked down as amongst the lowest "members" of society, below even a 2nd ed thief. It could also be extrapolated that another reason for this looking down on is due to their treatment of arcane magic. Khinasi culture is very education based and they tend to favor wizards and magicians (arcane classes who excel through study). The way a bard picks up spells on the fly, has no spell books (in 2nd ed they did however) and have no real dedication to studying magic (they would rather entertain) leads one to see how they could be looked down at in a culture like the Khinasi one. In Khinasi culture the magician would more likely be the basis for the court bard portrayed here, but any association with the "bard" title would likely be a disgrace in their society - "Why couldn`t you g
> et a job as a magician, like your cousin? Something a little more cultured."
>
If Bards are shunned, not because of cultural biase in Khinasi, but
because they do not use an educated way of using arcane magic, would not
the Sorceror be treated similar as he too does not learn magic the way
wizards do by spending hours over dusty tomes and learning?
Thieves are not seen above bards, as the 2E Cities of the sun book
mentions on p. 11 about rogues: "... Khinasi consider thievery a great
affront to society...". So both Bard and Rogue (or former Thief) are
shunned professions/classes in Khinasi - unless the rogue disguises as a
merchant.
So if we follow the logic that it is the lack of educated learning the
Khinasi ought to shun Sorcerors as well - while as mentioned in the
draft 0.0 most do not even discriminate between Sorceror and Wizard, the
Khinasi are educated enough to know the difference. However if that is
not wanted, then the reason to shun bards has to be something specific
to the bard class - and as they are jack-of-all-trades (some fighting,
some thievery, some arcane magic) the only thing found only in the bard
is song. Certainly Khinasi preserve their history written down in books
and would see the rjurik way of having skalds "record" the genealogy of
a family back five generations and the history of the founding of a
realm by reciting songs/poems not only odd but barbaric.
So I would assume that while bards are shunned, because of the cultural
biase that singers/musicians are lowly citizens they still exist. Either
as the low-lifes they are seen, just like even in near-modern times the
gipsy/roma/sinti, or as the rogue in disguise, pretending to be either
also a merchant, fighter or even Magician. The last only unless Bardic
arcane magic is not observable different from the way magic is used by
Magicians.
>I`m not so certain about Cuircean being the patron deity of a bard. It just doesn`t seem military/warrior-like enough. Come on, they are pansies who only wear "light" armors, if any. Not much of a soldier. I think I understand the connection trying to be made with the herald of Haelyn, but overall it just doesn`t seem like a good fit. This is a polytheistic society afterall, which is why they have a pantheon.:)
>
We could just say that the "hidden agendas" of the different bardic
colleges do exist, partly because they follow different points of vies
of bardic tradition. The one bardic college might emphaisze music as art
and Laerme as patron (wasnt that the one in Anuire?), one might
emphasize the role of bards as heralds under the guidance of Cuiraceen...
bye
Michael Romes
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04-09-2003, 12:06 PM #12
> irdeggman- I disagree. Most PrCs are meant to be taken between levels 5-7. If you look at the `Virtuoso` PrC (from `Song and Silence`) you`ll see it also has a perform 10 ranks requirement. I don`t think it unreasonable.
>
Indeed. This can present an interesting dilemma if one chooses to continue the Cerilia-has-lower-than-standard-character-level tradition. Very few (PC or otherwise) will have any kind of PrCs since they`ll never be able to meet the requirements. If one wishes to use PrCs in a campaign, perhaps the requirements should be altered?
Cheers
Bjørn
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04-11-2003, 01:20 AM #13
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Green Knight wrote:
>>irdeggman- I disagree. Most PrCs are meant to be taken between levels 5-7. If you look at the `Virtuoso` PrC (from `Song and Silence`) you`ll see it also has a perform 10 ranks requirement. I don`t think it unreasonable.
>>
>
>Indeed. This can present an interesting dilemma if one chooses to continue the Cerilia-has-lower-than-standard-character-level tradition. Very few (PC or otherwise) will have any kind of PrCs since they`ll never be able to meet the requirements. If one wishes to use PrCs in a campaign, perhaps the requirements should be altered?
>Cheers
>Bjørn
>
The 2E Birthright rulebook listed on p. 14 a large number of "kits"
which seem to me as the 2E "prestige class". Only a select few were
listed as fitting for Birthright and only for a select number of cultures.
Why should this change with prestige classes?
IF Prestige classes are allowed at all in Aebrynnis, and allowed at all
in the culture in which your characters play, that does only mean that
someone there is able at some point to take that prestige class.
PRESTIGE class sounds like something that means something, not just a
selection of special abilities which anyone of sufficient skills can
chose. If you do not fulfill the requirements, then you have not yet
earned the prestige to enter into that class.
If you direly want to play that prestige class, perhaps you are playing
with characters of insufficient character level?
But changing core requirement of classes so that a player of a low-level
character can select his wanted prestige class? ;-)
bye
Michael Romes
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