Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32
  1. #1
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Murray, KY
    Posts
    1,054
    Downloads
    9
    Uploads
    0
    The rules say that you can raise your bloodline by spending regency = to your current score plus one (i.e. if 27, raising it to 28 would cost 28 regency).

    Does this seem a little difficult to raise your bloodline? I mean if I generate 27 regency for a Domain Turn - why would I want to shoot the moon and waste all the regency generated in a single turn (plus 1!) on a single bloodline point! This makes raising your bloodline near impossible without having to turning to bloodtheft or relics/artifacts to raise it. Its not that easy to consistently build up a stock pile of regency and rule your realm while fighting off the wolves who seek to take it! When you struggle to get regency to make it through a Domain Turn, how can you possibly generate a surplus to raise your bloodline?

    I don't think it would be to unreasonable a rule if the PC could generate regency equal to their Domain Power so they would at least have some regency to work with.

    Any opinions on the matter?
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  2. #2
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Thief River Falls, MN
    Posts
    473
    Downloads
    182
    Uploads
    19
    Not to mention that raising the bloodline strength can only be done once a domain turn. This stretches out a time limit on raising a bloodline strength.

    Now as a DM and player I must question the motive behind making this rule change. We have to remember our focus determines our reality, thus what we tend to envelope ourselves with dominates how we see things.

    With that to consider we should look at it this way, the difference between 60 and 70 str should be significant. Time limit is 10 seasons to match the 70 plus the 655 RP cost. This signifies a game system where the long term investment is essential as this set up is very conservative and setup for only farsighted rulers to benefit from if they can establish a dynasty.

    Now we should look at the length of time a ruler will rule. 5-50 years on average or less from a historical perspective. That is anywhere from 20 to 200 seasons. A lot of RP can be stockpiled in this amount of time. The biggest obstacle to this however is the pace of the game itself, which tends to make such a transformation seem like it will never take place.

    This setup does satisfy my idea of how such a regency system should work if it is to be realistic. However so much can be done in one lifetime, so much buildup compared to how much actual buildup has happened over the course of the empire and the post empire. So many wasted actions and resources imo.

    On the other hand from a progressive player's standpoint and the short lived pbem's I see your point. It would take the RP income of the Gorgon, Boeruine, and Avanil combined to make the 60 to 70 and then some to spend for turns.

    I would say from my experience, this difficulty expresses the power of a strong bloodline and its magnificence. If you allow this process to be expidited you will suffer and explosion of power in your campaign. Regency is not a simple stockpiling of assets, it takes a moderate to conservative, to even sometimes liberal or radical approach to balance everything out, especially during trying times. I like the idea of having more than one front to focus upon when trying to increase one's own strength.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    16
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Those with greater bloodlines should have the advantage. As a player I always try to increase my bloodline. One good way is vassalge. It can add to your RP collected. Just save and increase, save and increase. Its difficult, but you don't just give players platemail +5 at the begining of the adventures, they have to work for it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Murray, KY
    Posts
    1,054
    Downloads
    9
    Uploads
    0
    Orginally posted by Magian

    Not to mention that raising the bloodline strength can only be done once a domain turn. This stretches out a time limit on raising a bloodline strength.
    ...
    With that to consider we should look at it this way, the difference between 60 and 70 str should be significant. Time limit is 10 seasons to match the 70 plus the 655 RP cost. This signifies a game system where the long term investment is essential as this set up is very conservative and setup for only farsighted rulers to benefit from if they can establish a dynasty.

    Now we should look at the length of time a ruler will rule. 5-50 years on average or less from a historical perspective. That is anywhere from 20 to 200 seasons. A lot of RP can be stockpiled in this amount of time. The biggest obstacle to this however is the pace of the game itself, which tends to make such a transformation seem like it will never take place.
    My point is this.Say you take a regent who rules for 20 years. Even if you to raise your bloodline once per year (wasting roughly 1/4 of your regency per year... the math isn't 100% depending on growth). At best you can raise your bloodline 20 pts. If you started with a bloodline scor oe 23... oh boy atfter 20 years of wasting countless resources you have a whoping 43. IN the mean time Avan, Boeruine, Gavin and any other regent with half a brain has already romped and stomped all over the board and most likely killed you before you reached the 20 year mark of being a semi-descent regent.

    How does one generate the influence to impose vassalage when one can't take care of his own realm.
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Ansien, Elinie
    Posts
    49
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I think that that's just Magian's point: Bloodlines and great dynasties take time to build up, no matter how slow the progress may seem to the player. Besides an increase from 20 to 43 does not seem so paltry in my eyes!
    When you start with a relatively modest bloodline of 23, you don't try to compete alone with Boeruine, Avan and much less the Gorgon! Form alliances, curry favour with the powerful and entice the less powerful into serving you! Even the strong must fail when the weak unite against him(/her).
    Or go adventuring and seek for less conventionnal ways of raising your bloodline.
    Alice laughed. `There's no use trying,' she said: `one CAN'T believe impossible things.'
    `I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast'

    -- "Through the Looking Glass", Lewis Caroll

  6. #6
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Thief River Falls, MN
    Posts
    473
    Downloads
    182
    Uploads
    19
    Another reinforcing point to add is even if you have weak allies with little RP income they have more actions that just one super power who gains alot of RP. RP alone is not sheer power how it is used and executed can overturn any senario.

    Just like a character with 100 hp fighting a character with 1 hp can loss with a critical hit. Think of a party of low level hp characters after this guy, the chances of defeating the biggy increase.

    The RP income and domain size are linear but they are only two dimensions of influence at work in this game. This is not hack and slash system, intrigue is a most powerful virtue in this game. The dynamics of power involve much more than the family bloodline. This system is setup for a traditional party of adventurers to work together to overcome the odds. It stresses that teamwork will overcome thus giving the players a fighter who can provide military might, and priest who can aid in defense and healing, a thief who can get the edge needed through information and espionage, and a wizard who can devastate a great many things. There is more at work here than the bloodline itself. Since it is a lineage that does make a big impact on the game the bld str does matter. Yet the truly worthy always learn to live with their short comings and press on in the face of adversity.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Murray, KY
    Posts
    1,054
    Downloads
    9
    Uploads
    0
    I'm all for intrigue and allies. However, there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in allieas and vassals. You don't make so one your vassal at a whim. Even if you succeed it noramlly takes effort to subdue them or keep them in check. A weak PC would be just as subject to the effects of vassalage as an NPC. When someone like Avan, Aeric and Gavin come pounding on your door and your neighbors refuse to help you find yourself in a world of hurt. BY the time you get around to currying your neighbors to help you've drained all your regency on diplomacy and other actions just trying to survive, much less raise your bloodline so you can generate some descent regency income.

    Besides a couple of good Contest actions by your opponents and your regency will be devestated. No offense but if your DM lets a regent stockpile Regency consistently then in my opinion something is wrong or the regent is seeking their personal growth more than the growth of the nation. Generally the first year or two you are scratching to survive and build up a good foundation. Thoughts of raising your bloodline are generally not a possibility for most regents.
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Murray, KY
    Posts
    1,054
    Downloads
    9
    Uploads
    0
    Orginally posted by Magian
    Just like a character with 100 hp fighting a character with 1 hp can loss with a critical hit. Think of a party of low level hp characters after this guy, the chances of defeating the biggy increase.
    When you join up a bunch of pip sqeeks together in a party the chances of party members being slain also increases. A 100 hp fighter isn't going to go down easy, and 9 times out of 10 he will take at least one person with him. I mean no offense, but if you play realistically, 5 first level PCs verses a 13th level mage are generally toast. You can always spout off theories that you can sneak up oin the guy etc. But don't you thinka 13th level wizard with a 17 inteligence, who has been around the block a while would be a little wiser then to set himself up to be destroyed by such a paltry force?
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  9. #9
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Thief River Falls, MN
    Posts
    473
    Downloads
    182
    Uploads
    19
    That is why characters like Avan, Boeruine, Mhoried, Ghoere and the awnsheghlien are not for PC use. The game is balanced in its setup, there is a political stalemate the first one to move will lose more than he gains just like in old Europe. I don't think any big guy will allow another big guy to bully a few small independant city states like endier or ilien without paying a high toll because they are very valuable provinces.

    A historic example are the city states of italy in the middle ages. Constant vying for power, and when one made significant gains he found his former allies his new enemies.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Montréal, Québec - Canada
    Posts
    156
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    That's normal, a small realm like Medoere or Ilien shouldn't expect to be able to sweep through Anuire, even a neighboring realm in the first few turns. Birthright is built in a way that it takes at least 6 or 8 domain turns for a small power to have any chance of major gain, and that's the way it should be realistically too. You just wouldn't see Naples take out all the Papal States right off the bat, much less stand up to a major power like France or Spain. Would you like to play in a game that allowed a random morronic state to suddenly become a major power because it was run by a PC for about 3 turns? I don't think so.
    Respectfully submitted,

    Temujin,
    Would-be ruler of you all. =)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.