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  1. #1
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    Who`s the min-maxer(s) here? If you get some time would you do me up a
    20-level progression for a dwarven spymaster, along the lines of Diirk
    ("That`s Diirk with two i`s, so don`t try anything funny!") Watershold? It`s
    for a FR game, so feel free to use the Spymaster PrC and cleric levels of
    that dwarven god of trickery whose name I don`t remember.

    I`d do it myself, but I don`t happen to have my FRCS book in this state.

    Thanks, and sorry for an off-topic post.

    Mark V.

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  2. #2
    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Mark VanderMeulen wrote:

    > Thanks, and sorry for an off-topic post.

    If you`d just said it was for Diirk Watershold himself, rather than some
    FR guy sort of like him, it`d be on-topic. =) I`d like to see the result
    posted here.


    Ryan Caveney

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  3. #3
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    I am the resident minmaxer, I think. :)

    Give me a day or so, I'll see what I can come up with.

    For a spymaster, what do you want minmaxed? Social skills? Disguise? Or kind of everything?

  4. #4
    >>>Would you do me up a 20-level progression for a dwarven spymaster, along
    the lines of Diirk

    Not really a dedicated min-max guy - more of a toolkit builder [I look for
    how to achieve an effect]. Here is my stab at it really quickly.....(sorry
    bout the tables.)

    Warning, I generally don`t use magic classes, so I stick with what I know -
    non-magical classes and PrCs. I also just stuck the levels in - other than
    Rogue 1, the build has allot of flexibility when getting levels.

    Here is how you COULD make a Diirk type character. Good BAB, + high skills,
    buckets of feats, and very versatile.

    Class Bab Fort Ref Will Specials Feats Skill Points
    1. Rogue +0 +0 +2 +0 +1d6 Free 40
    2. Rogue +1 +0 +3 +0 Evasion 50
    3. Rogue +2 +1 +3 +1 Uncan Dodge, 2d6 Power Attack 60
    4. Ranger +3 +3 +3 +1 Track, Enemy 66
    5. Fighter +4 +5 +3 +1 Cleave 70
    6. Fighter +5 +6 +3 +1 W. Focus, Gr Cleave 74
    7. Fighter +6 +6 +4 +2 78
    8. Fighter +7 +7 +4 +2 Wpn spcl Wpn spcl 82
    9. Tribal Def +8 +9 +6 +2 Dw. Enemy, Home 2 Feats 86
    10 Tribal Def +9 +10 +7 +2 Wildfight 90
    11 Tribal Def +10 +10 +7 +3 Terrain AC 94
    12 Watch Det +10 +10 +9 +5 City watch Feat 102
    13 Watch Det +11 +10 +10 +6 Expertise, specialty, profile 110
    14 Watch Det +12 +11 +10 +6 Superior disarm, interog 118
    15 Watch Det +13 +11 +11 +7 Deductive augury, synergy Feat 126
    16 Watch Det +13 +11 +11 +7 No subdual, sectet doors 134
    Free
    Free Feat
    Free
    Free

    Stats 28 point buy - STR14, CON 15, DEX 13, INT 14, WIS 12, CHA 8;
    4th (CON), 8th CHA, 12th (CHA), 16th (CON), 20th (CON)

    HD: 3d6 + 5d8 + 8d10 = 74 + CON

    Bonus to skills from SA:
    Goblins as Favored Enemy - +1
    Orogs as Tribal Enemy - +3 to Bluff & Sense Motive, +3 to Damage
    +2 to AC in homeland
    +2 to Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot checks.
    +5 to 1 KS
    + 1 free dual skill focus (diplomacy and Sense motive)

    That is about 17 extra skill points on the last three.

    Eosin - this guy is probably not up to FR (no magic) but he would do a fair
    job at Diirk.

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  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Shade
    I am the resident minmaxer, I think.
    There's only one ;) ?

    Plus, Trevyr, are you posting it off-topic here because you'd get slapped for being lazy on the Wizards min-maxing board? Hmm?

    CM.

  6. #6
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mark VanderMeulen" <vander@BIOLOGY2.WUSTL.EDU>
    Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:08 AM

    > Hrm. Social skills, I guess, although kind of everything is what I had in
    > mind. A sort of diplomat/guilder was what I had in mind with the Diirk
    > Watershold comparison. Someone who moves around a lot and has a lot of
    > contacts and is always on the lookout for information.

    Many crime bosses are based on the charismatic noble classes found in many
    settings. I`m not sure how much rogue Diirk has. Two skills I made sure to
    keep Diirk up on were Escape Artist, and Disable Device. Ultimatly, I`d
    think Diirk would be no more than 1/3 rogue, and the rest would be either
    some kind of charismatic noble, or would have a similar guilder class.

    http://home.mchsi.com/~kgauck/taelshore/guilder.htm
    This link shows my own guilder class for BR, a charismatic rogue with some
    features changed to emphisize mercantilism. If Diirk was built on this
    class, I might take a few levels of a charisma based aristocrat at high
    levels, but only if they provided or enhanced a network of contacts.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  7. #7
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    > CMonkey wrote:
    > [quot]Originally posted by Trevyr
    > Who`s the min-maxer(s) here?
    > [/quot]
    >
    > There`s only one ;) ?
    >
    > Plus are you posting it off topic here because you`d get slapped
    > for being lazy on the Wizards min-maxing board? Hmm?
    LOL.

    No, I`m posting it here because I`m too lazy to GO to the wizards
    min-maxing board.

    Mark V.

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  8. #8
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I just updated my aristocrat class.
    http://home.mchsi.com/~kgauck/taelshore/aristocrat.htm

    The new version substitutes two bonus feats for four class features. The
    features are weaker than typical feats, but have much more aristocratic
    flavor. These include ally, family ties, refuge, style, savior-faire,
    taunt, reputation, and smear.

    Some of my favorite feats are those that eliminate penalties or limits. For
    example, cooperating on skill checks require a DC 10 skill check and
    characters cannot take 10. Further, their cooperation is based on the DM`s
    decision that they can provide useful aid. So, I added the feature
    Direction. At 9th level, an Aristocrat can cooperate with another charcter
    performing a skill check, providing a +2 circumstance bonus. The aristocrat
    gets to take 10 on their cooperation skill check. The aristocrat cooperates
    by offering advice and direction, so does not have to be right next to the
    character performing the skill check. The aristocrat does have to be able
    to see or hear what is going on so the aristocrat can offer useful
    direction. The aristocrat can offer assistance in advance of the primary
    skill check if he has precise knowledge of what is involved.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  9. #9
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    At 10:36 AM 4/2/2003 -0600, you wrote:
    >
    >> CMonkey wrote:
    >> [quot]Originally posted by Trevyr
    >> Who`s the min-maxer(s) here?
    >> [/quot]
    >>
    >> There`s only one ;) ?
    >>
    >> Plus are you posting it off topic here because you`d get slapped
    >> for being lazy on the Wizards min-maxing board? Hmm?
    >
    >
    >LOL.
    >
    >No, I`m posting it here because I`m too lazy to GO to the wizards
    >min-maxing board.

    There are some great builds over there, you should check it out sometime :)

    I am particularly proud of my fighter/mage and iaijutsu builds.
    Unfortunately neither is appropriate for Birthright!

    But I do have a good dwarven defender build I made for BR. Maybe I should
    post it here...

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