Results 1 to 10 of 35
Thread: Divine Elemental Planar Links.
-
03-28-2003, 04:02 AM #1
The Elemental Control blood ability allows scions with derivations of
Anduiras, Basaia, Masela and Reynir to summon elementals from appropriate
planes of existence; air, fire, water and earth. There are three more
derivations, of course, that might have some sort of planar connection. If
we were to expand the blood ability for the remaining bloodlines anyone
have ideas to which plane the derivations of Brenna, Vorynn and Azrai might
apply to?
These need not be the four standard planes. Since we`re just speculating
planes of ooze, magma, lightning, etc. are all possible. Does one or the
other lend itself to those derivations? Azrai seems pretty obviously
connected to a Shadow plane, but I`d argue that earth might not be the
proper plane for Reynir and though there are aspects of sky to Anduiras`
portfolio, air might not be the most appropriate for that derivation. I`m
not at all adverse to completely realigning the derivations of the gods
should that make sense. Anyone have thoughts on this?
Gary
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
03-28-2003, 04:39 AM #2
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- Posts
- 317
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
Don't fix it if it ain't broke... ;)
Seriously though, I think I read something about this elsewhere. A netbook, perhaps. According to what I read, Azrai was affiliated with the Negative Energy Plane, Brenna with the Ethereal, and Vorynn with the Positive.
-
03-28-2003, 07:50 AM #3
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Location
- BR mailing list
- Posts
- 1,538
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
Please spare us magma-para-elementals!
Andurias and air seems rather obvious - air being the traditional element of
nobles and kings. But I see no real need for an element for the other
bloodlines.
If we really want such conncetions how about:
Reynir - wood (à la OA)
Azrai - shadow (as proposed)
Brenna - money? Sera seems to be the god most associated with this plane, so
extra-planar associations seem wrong to me.
Vorynn - moon (per Seulune in FR)
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.
-
03-28-2003, 12:42 PM #4
At 05:39 AM 3/28/2003 +0100, Shade wrote:
>Seriously though, I think I read something about this elsewhere. A
>netbook, perhaps. According to what I read, Azrai was affiliated with the
>Negative Energy Plane, Brenna with the Ethereal, and Vorynn with the Positive.
If you remember where you read that I`d be interested.
Azrai seems like he could have had more than one affiliation... which I
kind of like, honestly. There are a couple of neg/pos energy plane
creatures that could qualify for "elemental" summoning. They`d need to be
scaled a bit for the system I`m playing with, but that`s not that big a
problem.
Brenna still doesn`t really strike me as having any particular Inner Plane
association, so I may skip that derivation.
At 08:27 AM 3/28/2003 +0100, Starfox wrote:
>Andurias and air seems rather obvious - air being the traditional element
>of nobles and kings. But I see no real need for an element for the other
>bloodlines.
Maybe it`s just me. Air seems a rather insubstantial and flighty kind of
thing, not quite what I picture The Lawmaker manifesting. It doesn`t
_really_ matter, of course.
>If we really want such conncetions how about:
>
>Reynir - wood (à la OA)
>Azrai - shadow (as proposed)
>Brenna - money? Sera seems to be the god most associated with this plane, so
>extra-planar associations seem wrong to me.
>Vorynn - moon (per Seulune in FR)
Associating Reynir does free up the elemental plane of Earth for another
bloodline.... It seems most apt to describe Moradin than one of the
derivations, really, but I suppose one could connect it up with Brenna if
for no other reason than to round them all out.
Gary
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
03-28-2003, 02:29 PM #5
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
- Location
- Germany
- Posts
- 883
- Downloads
- 0
- Uploads
- 0
Gary wrote:
> The Elemental Control blood ability allows scions with derivations of
> Anduiras, Basaia, Masela and Reynir to summon elementals from appropriate
> planes of existence; air, fire, water and earth. There are three more
> derivations, of course, that might have some sort of planar
> connection. If
> we were to expand the blood ability for the remaining bloodlines anyone
> have ideas to which plane the derivations of Brenna, Vorynn and Azrai
> might
> apply to?
> These need not be the four standard planes. Since we`re just speculating
> planes of ooze, magma, lightning, etc. are all possible. Does one or the
> other lend itself to those derivations? Azrai seems pretty obviously
> connected to a Shadow plane, but I`d argue that earth might not be the
> proper plane for Reynir and though there are aspects of sky to Anduiras`
> portfolio, air might not be the most appropriate for that derivation.
> I`m
> not at all adverse to completely realigning the derivations of the gods
> should that make sense. Anyone have thoughts on this?
> Gary
I would advice you NOT to have them summon elementals from the plane of
whatever.
Aebrynnis has and should not have connections to other planes, except
the shadowworld.
Better would be a rule, that was used in COG II, that summoned being
always had to be native to Aebrynnis.
In the case of Elemental Control I would suggest to summon e.g. an air
elemental that´s already there somewhere in the wind around you, or an
fire elemantal out of the campfire you built or from the rock you touch.
Extending the ability to derivation who did not have them before is not
desirable. The four natural elements are represented by four gods
derivations only and giving other derivations similar powers is making
them generic. Why had only Azrai and Anduiras Battlewise? Hey, give
Masela Battlewise on naval battles and Reynir in forests and Vorynn
under a full moon and Basaia when the sun is high... The sun is high?
Moses raising his arms praying and winning a battle - Basaia ought to
grant it as well... ;-)
bye
Michael Romes
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
03-28-2003, 03:42 PM #6
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
- Location
- Malden, MA
- Posts
- 761
- Downloads
- 2
- Uploads
- 0
On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Shade wrote:
> I think I read something about this elsewhere. A netbook, perhaps.
> According to what I read, Azrai was affiliated with the Negative
> Energy Plane, Brenna with the Ethereal, and Vorynn with the Positive.
I don`t know if you read about it elsewhere also, but I know you`ve read
it right here -- I`ve been suggesting this connection for years. Most
recently, I mentioned it only twelve days ago. =)
Ryan Caveney
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
03-28-2003, 03:42 PM #7
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
- Location
- Malden, MA
- Posts
- 761
- Downloads
- 2
- Uploads
- 0
On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Gary wrote:
> If you remember where you read that I`d be interested.
Now you`ve hurt my feelings. ;) Actually, Azrai = Negative and Vorynn =
Positive strikes me as so obvious that lots of people should have thought
of it independently.
> There are a couple of neg/pos energy plane creatures that could
> qualify for "elemental" summoning.
Xag-Ya and Xeg-Yi are the only things which leap to my mind.
> They`d need to be scaled a bit for the system I`m playing with,
And what system is that?
> Brenna still doesn`t really strike me as having any particular Inner Plane
> association, so I may skip that derivation.
I was actually working on a post about this in response to a different
thread, so I suppose I`ll just have to finish that up. =)
> Starfox wrote:
> > Reynir - wood (à la OA)
Wood as an elemental plane separate from Earth? I suppose it would be
something more like an endless forest, rather than forever underground?
If you`re going to go that route, I`d say associate him directly with the
Prime Material! He could summon magically-pumped natural creatures
instead of elementals; in 3e perhaps celestial dire bears.
> > Brenna - money? Sera seems to be the god most associated with this
> > plane, so extra-planar associations seem wrong to me.
Brenna is *motion*, not money. Sera`s association with commerce
interprets Brenna in light of Brecht mercantilism: their favorite kind of
motion is the motion of money, goods and services.
> > Vorynn - moon (per Seulune in FR)
Yes, but is there a plane of "moonness"? IMO, if sun=fire, then moon &
magic (Vorynn`s portfolio) = positive energy.
> Associating Reynir does free up the elemental plane of Earth for
> another bloodline.... It seems most apt to describe Moradin than one
> of the derivations, really, but I suppose one could connect it up with
> Brenna if for no other reason than to round them all out.
Brenna is definitely not Earth. Since you don`t like Anduiras = Air, you
could give him Earth and give Air to Brenna.
Ryan Caveney
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
03-28-2003, 04:55 PM #8
At 10:16 AM 3/28/2003 -0500, Ryan Caveney wrote:
> > There are a couple of neg/pos energy plane creatures that could
> > qualify for "elemental" summoning.
>
>Xag-Ya and Xeg-Yi are the only things which leap to my mind.
>
> > They`d need to be scaled a bit for the system I`m playing with,
>
>And what system is that?
The Bloodline Point stuff I`ve mentioned a few times. Elemental Control
was one of the first blood abilities that I wrote up. It`s gone through a
little tweaking since then, but the basic power remains the same; a scion
with the ability can summon an elemental with 1 HD per BP he puts into the
ability--though I`m thinking now that should be 2HD/BP....
So to reflect the ability of a scion of Vorynn to summon a X-Y from the
plane of positive energy that monster would have to be "scaled" from 2HD to
18HD. Since Savage Species did exactly that kind of thing with the four
"standard" elementals it shouldn`t be terribly difficult to replicate.
> > Brenna still doesn`t really strike me as having any particular Inner Plane
> > association, so I may skip that derivation.
>
>I was actually working on a post about this in response to a different
>thread, so I suppose I`ll just have to finish that up. =)
Looking forward to it.
> > Starfox wrote:
> > > Reynir - wood (à la OA)
>
>Wood as an elemental plane separate from Earth? I suppose it would be
>something more like an endless forest, rather than forever underground?
>If you`re going to go that route, I`d say associate him directly with the
>Prime Material! He could summon magically-pumped natural creatures
>instead of elementals; in 3e perhaps celestial dire bears.
I was thinking he`d summon a "wood spirit" that animated a tree in a manner
similar to the treant/Liveoak spell. It would, however, have HD per the BP
spent on the ability and would need to be scaled appropriately. There`s an
enhancement to the blood ability description that allows scions to summon
elemental creatures other than elementals as long as they are of the
appropriate HD, so a scion with Reynir`s version of this ability could
"summon" various animate plants.
As a matter of fact, the description of the Plane of Wood and the idea that
a scion of Reynir would more aptly "animate trees" rather than summon an
earth elemental is what started the speculation about the association of
the remaining three derivations with the elemental planes.
Gary
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
03-28-2003, 04:55 PM #9
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
- Location
- Malden, MA
- Posts
- 761
- Downloads
- 2
- Uploads
- 0
On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Gary wrote:
> I was thinking he`d summon a "wood spirit" that animated a tree in a
> manner similar to the treant/Liveoak spell.
Oh! Yes, of course. I like it.
OTOH, I`ve got to say -- maybe it`s only Erik who`s so focused on trees,
and Reynir was more focused on just the dirt. Similarly, maybe it`s only
Haelyn who`s so keen on noble war and leadership; perhaps the original
Anduiras was just your standard generic sky god, so air would indeed be
more appropriate than it would if trying to assign elements to the living
gods. Actually, I think you`ve made up my mind for me: the old gods were
very primal forces, not much tied to everyday life, so they should have
pure elemental associations. The newer, once-human gods are the first
ones who should have philosophical aspects to their portfolios. E.g.,
Haelyn = law & justice and Cuiraecen = battle, but Anduiras = Air/Storm;
Avani = Reason and Laerme = Passion, but Basaia = Fire; Kriesha = Cruelty
and Belinik = Terror, but Azrai = Entropy (in the thermodynamic sense).
Ryan Caveney
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
-
03-28-2003, 05:22 PM #10
At 11:08 AM 3/28/2003 -0500, Ryan Caveney wrote:
>OTOH, I`ve got to say -- maybe it`s only Erik who`s so focused on trees,
>and Reynir was more focused on just the dirt. Similarly, maybe it`s only
>Haelyn who`s so keen on noble war and leadership; perhaps the original
>Anduiras was just your standard generic sky god, so air would indeed be
>more appropriate than it would if trying to assign elements to the living
>gods. Actually, I think you`ve made up my mind for me: the old gods were
>very primal forces, not much tied to everyday life, so they should have
>pure elemental associations. The newer, once-human gods are the first
>ones who should have philosophical aspects to their portfolios. E.g.,
>Haelyn = law & justice and Cuiraecen = battle, but Anduiras = Air/Storm;
>Avani = Reason and Laerme = Passion, but Basaia = Fire; Kriesha = Cruelty
>and Belinik = Terror, but Azrai = Entropy (in the thermodynamic sense).
Now that`s interesting. I`ve always assumed that the new gods took on
identical (or nearly so) portfolios and aspects to the ones they
supplanted, but there`s really no reason to make that assumption. In the
case of Azrai`s successors the portfolios they adopted are quite different
from the way he is described. That would indicate that the process of
apotheosis did not make the new gods carbon copies of the old ones. I
think there are some thematic reasons why the new gods would stay closer in
basic demeanor and demesne to the gods they replaced--mostly having to do
with the way Azrai`s bloodline is corrupting in such an unpredictable way,
while most of the "good" derivations remain more true to form--but that
doesn`t mean they would be _exactly_ like their predecessors.... I don`t
think I`d extend the thinking so far as to make the new gods very different
from the old ones, but some shifts here in there in emphasis, not to
mention the seemingly broader scope of the new gods` duties--some of them
seem to have more areas that they cover than is typical for D&D
deities--would be explained by such a thing.
Still, I think I`d like to keep the Reynir --> Wood link since it seems to
work so nicely. I might use something like the above, however, to
rationalize Brenna --> Earth.
The expanded bloodline derivation planar connections, BTW, is written up as
an optional rule for that blood ability with the original four described as
the "standard" Elemental Control. It really amounts to a few paragraphs of
additional text, so I don`t think it`ll be a problem. Particularly since
one of the enhancements for that blood ability is that one can spend a BP
to gain the ability to summon elementals from planes "adjacent" to ones
that the scion`s derivation gives him access to. Several posts on this
subject lead me to suspect that`ll offend the sensibilities of a few folks,
but I just think it`s such a cool mechanic in practice that I`m going to
keep it as is. It`d be easy enough for someone to strike out of the text
for their personal use.
Gary
************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Bookmarks