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Thread: Make Scion a class
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03-22-2003, 04:37 AM #1
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It is the only way to add bloodlines and have it be balanced and not be complicated.
Do this or ditch it. Anyother way will completely ruin the game.
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03-22-2003, 05:48 AM #2
At 05:37 AM 3/22/2003 +0100, ecliptic wrote:
>It is the only way to add bloodlines and have it be balanced and not be
>complicated.
>
>Do this or ditch it. Anyother way will completely ruin the game.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
As far as I can tell there are three major ways of reflecting bloodline; as
an ability score, as a character class or in a manner unrelated to
traditional 3e mechanics (as the original 2e version was.) I`ve done all
three and each has merits and demerits. When it gets down to it, I think
it`s really a matter of personal preference and finding a well articulated
system, but unless someone comes up with a system of reflecting bloodlines
that actually explodes in the faces of people who read it... I don`t think
any of them will ruin the game. Even an exploding bloodline system might
not be ruinous... an explosion is, after all, how bloodlines came about in
the first place.
Gary
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03-22-2003, 05:52 AM #3
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Ecliptic,
Please write up a version of a scion class system that we can discuss. The one previously presented (although admittedly put together quickly) didn't balance very well. A class that isn't a class just doesn't make an sense mechanically.:)Duane Eggert
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03-22-2003, 06:15 AM #4
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Has it been discussed...
To make Scions a template instead?
-----Original Message-----
From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion
[mailto:birthright-l@oracle.wizards.com] On Behalf Of irdeggman
Sent: March 21, 2003 11:53 PM
To: birthright-l@oracle.wizards.com
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] Make Scion a class [36#1472]
This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum. You can
view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1472
irdeggman wrote:
Ecliptic,
Please write up a version of a scion class system that we can
discuss. The one previously presented (although admittedly put together
quickly) didn`t balance very well. A class that isn`t a class just
doesn`t make an sense mechanically.:)
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03-22-2003, 08:41 AM #5
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary" <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:22 PM
> As far as I can tell there are three major ways of reflecting bloodline;
as
> an ability score, as a character class or in a manner unrelated to
> traditional 3e mechanics (as the original 2e version was.)
You left out doing it as a template.
Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com
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03-22-2003, 10:16 AM #6
At 02:17 AM 3/22/2003 -0600, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
> > As far as I can tell there are three major ways of reflecting bloodline; as
> > an ability score, as a character class or in a manner unrelated to
> > traditional 3e mechanics (as the original 2e version was.)
>
>You left out doing it as a template.
I guess that`s true. Templates kind of tack onto the bloodline ability
score though, don`t they? I like ECL modifiers for a 2e to 3e update too,
and I`m trying to put together some numbers for how to do that in such a
system right now. What I`m coming up with is this:
1. Bloodline strength becomes the basis for a modifier (Bld) that the
bloodline as an ability score system uses. One uses whatever method one
wants to come up with a value 1-16 from bloodline strength and then
compares that result to the table below. ECL is on a table next to the
bloodline strength descriptions with the ECL value noted in tenths. I like
having a couple of additional strength score ratings in there, which are
noted as optional on the table:
Bloodline (Bld) Optional
Score Strength Modifier Strength ECL
1-2 Tainted +0 Touched 0.0
3-4 Tainted +1 Tainted 0.1
5-8 Minor +2 Minor 0.2
9-10 Minor +3 Minor 0.3
11-12 Major +4 Lesser 0.4
13-14 Major +5 Major 0.5
15-16 Great +6 Great 0.6
17-18 True +7 True 0.7
2. After bloodline strength is determined one rolls bloodline score (d6 per
point of the bloodline strength range of 1-16.) I`m writing this stuff up
for use with a system of bloodline points, so that appears on this table
along with the ECL modifier that gets added to the one from the previous
table to determine overall ECL. As I noted in a previous post I`m starting
to lean more and more towards a system of EL/ECL/CR that uses tenths, so
eventually I don`t think I`ll be rounding these ECL modifiers at all, but
in the meantime, I`m rounding them off rather than rounding them down as is
the norm for D&D.
Bloodline Bloodline Maximum
Score Points Abilities ECL
1-70 0 0 0.0
8-14 1 1 0.2
15-21 2 1 0.4
22-28 3 2 0.6
29-35 4 2 0.8
36-42 5 2 1.0
43-49 6 3 1.2
50-56 7 3 1.4
57-63 8 3 1.6
64-70 9 4 1.8
71-77 10 4 2.0
78-84 11 4 2.2
85-91 12 5 2.4
92-98 13 5 2.6
99-105 14 5 2.8
A scion with a bloodline strength of minor(6) and a bloodline strength
score of 20 would have a total ECL modifier of 0.2 + 0.6 = 0.8, rounded up
to +1. Another scion with a bloodline strength of great(15) and a
bloodline score of 58 would have a total ECL modifier of 0.6 + 1.6 or 2.2,
rounded down to +2.
Since I mentioned I`m writing this thing up in the Bloodline Point format
here`s another blood ability in that style. The bit in paranthesis after
the title of the blood ability is a "standard abbreviation" for that blood
ability so that it can be noted along with bloodline strength, score and
derivation more easily. A character might have a bloodline "An(11/36)
BHist(3/1)" where An represents the Anduiras bloodline, 11 a major
bloodline strength (on the table above), 36 the bloodline score and
BHist(3/1) the Blood History ability with 3 bloodline points spent on the
base power for that ability and 1 point spent on an enhancement.
Blood History (BHist) - Br, Ma, Vo
Your bloodline gives you a sort of living memory that allows you to
connect to the minds of your ancestors in order to draw upon their
knowledge and life experiences.
The memories you can access are up until the time of your birth and the
birth of your ancestors. That is, you have the memories of your parent
(the one with the appropriate bloodline and derivation) up until you were
born. A sibling born two years later would have two years more of memories.
Base Power: For every BP spent you may call upon your ancestors memories
once per day. Calling upon your ancestor`s memories can have any one of
the following effects.
You may make the equivalent of a Bardic Knowledge (PHB 29) check.
You may use your Bld as your key ability on any Bardic Knowledge or skill
check.
You make a check on any untrained skill despite not having ranks in it.
You get the equivalent of an aid bonus (+2) on any skill check.
Enhancements: By spending 1BP you may combine two of the above effects
in a single check. If you spend an additional BP you may combine three of
the above effects in a single check.
Example: A character who had spent 2 BP on Blood History could have put
1 point into the base power and 1 in the enhancement, allowing him to
combine two effects from the base power. He could then make a Bardic
Knowledge check using his Bld in place of intelligence or do so with a +2
aid bonus. He could make a check using an untrained skill in which he had
no ranks and either use his Bld as his key ability for that check or get a
+2 aid bonus.
Gary
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03-22-2003, 10:56 PM #7
Personally, I don`t think using tenths complicates the math so much that I`d
prefer the innaccuracy of rounding over the simplicity of rounding.
Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com
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03-23-2003, 12:07 AM #8
At 10:53 AM 3/22/2003 -0600, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
>Personally, I don`t think using tenths complicates the math so much that
>I`d prefer the innaccuracy of rounding over the simplicity of rounding.
Yeah, me neither. When coming up with things like ECL modifiers and CR
awards, though, a little more accuracy is probably a good thing. It
actually seems to work pretty well in such cases. In certain other cases,
like determining EL, it`s not a problem to round the numbers. In fact,
it`s even sensible because one wants a little inaccuracy in such things.
I haven`t decided for sure yet which of those categories a "3.5" edition of
the rules falls under... but I`m leaning towards rounding up. ;)
I also would like a formula rather than a table to do things like CR
awards, or at least that the formula that is the basis of the table appear
somewhere on the page along with it. Tables are also, of course, a simpler
method for lots of folks, and the RPG community seems to be growing
increasingly math phobic--along with most of Western civilization, I
guess.... When there is a formula behind the math used to determine a
table having it appear somewhere in the text along with it would give those
who can remember the formula more easily than the entries in a table would
at least have that option. It would certainly save me some time in trying
to decipher the math behind those tables to put into a spreadsheet or
something.
Gary
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03-23-2003, 02:57 AM #9
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Here you go, worked on it last night.
http://ecliptic.netfirms.com/Scion.rtf
right click and save
Somethings still not completely finished such as the Blood Abilities list, Bloodlines and descriptions, and the Bonus blood abilities for high Charisima.
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03-23-2003, 12:04 PM #10
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The scion as a class will completely ruin the Birthright flair. Bloodlines are something that should be seperated from character classes. Further, a class is something that you can improve and what can be developed. As a result you have a sorcerer like class, thats bad for fighters.
my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....
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