How Big Was the Bang at Deismaar?

[Azrai]

Do not forget that there existed a landbridge between Aduria and Anuire, so not the whole Straits of Aerele are Deismaar. As I said I do not like the comparison of physical/geographical and divine explosions. An explosion like a meteor would have caused major climatic and geographical changes, that was not the case.

[Trevyr]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion
> [mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Azrai

> Azrai wrote:
> Do not forget that there existed a landbridge between Aduria and
> Anuire, so not the whole Straits of Aerele are Deismaar. As I
> said I do not like the comparison of physical/geographical and
> divine explosions. An explosion like a meteor would have caused
> major climatic and geographical changes, that was not the case.

I would say that a subsidance of a land bridge was a jolly big geographical
change, and that we actually have no information on whether there were
climatic changes associated with the events at Deismaar. At any rate, it
doesn`t have to be as big an explosion as a good-sized meteor, just
something on the order of the Krakatoa explosion. That did influence
climate, but only for a few years.

So how DO you explain the disappearance of Mt. Deismaar and the land bridge
if NOT due to the influence of a physical explosion?

Mark V.

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[DanMcSorley]

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, Mark VanderMeulen wrote:
> So how DO you explain the disappearance of Mt. Deismaar and the land bridge
> if NOT due to the influence of a physical explosion?

I don`t think it was an explosion that resulted in a crater, because that
would have wiped out all the people rather than giving them a chance to
escape. I think either the good gods made the landbridge sink as their
final act, to safeguard their people from the adurians, or the land was so
tortured by the sorrow of the death of all the gods that it sunk itself
under the sea in despair. Something like that. It had to be slow enough
that people could retreat to either side of it.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Trevyr]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion
> [mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of daniel mcsorley

> I don`t think it was an explosion that resulted in a crater, because that
> would have wiped out all the people rather than giving them a chance to
> escape. I think either the good gods made the landbridge sink as their
> final act, to safeguard their people from the adurians, or the land was so
> tortured by the sorrow of the death of all the gods that it sunk itself
> under the sea in despair. Something like that. It had to be slow enough
> that people could retreat to either side of it.

OK, that`s perfectly acceptable, and kind of cool. I just want to point out
that my scenario also involved a slow enough subsidance to allow people to
escape (indeed, that was in part my point) while still involving a blast
that was at least in part physical.

So do you use this `land`s personality` in any other ways? I could imagine
that you could, for example, say that Kal-Saitharak (sp?) has become
increasingly more volcanic as the earth rebels against the evil wieght of
the Gorgon living upon it.

Mark V.

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[DanMcSorley]

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, Mark VanderMeulen wrote:
> So do you use this `land`s personality` in any other ways? I could imagine
> that you could, for example, say that Kal-Saitharak (sp?) has become
> increasingly more volcanic as the earth rebels against the evil wieght of
> the Gorgon living upon it.

Havens notes that Rhormarch suffers from earthquakes because the earth is
grumbling about the civil war.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark VanderMeulen" <vander@BIOLOGY2.WUSTL.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:24 AM

> So how DO you explain the disappearance of Mt. Deismaar and the land
bridge
> if NOT due to the influence of a physical explosion?

Azrai grabbed the region and threw it at Andurias` head. ;-)

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[geeman]

At 06:43 PM 3/19/2003 -0600, Mark VanderMeulen wrote:

>(I may speculate that Kriesha was in the process of healing Belenik when
>the apotheosis occurred,
>which is why both ascended rather than only one).

Given the relative power of Azrai (6:1 at least) he`d probably be strong
enough to create at least two "godspawn" if each of the other six got one
apiece. I kind of like the idea that Raesene was purposefully not elevated
for one reason or another, though. It just strikes me as being in keeping
with so many other aspects of the character`s background.

> > How many people survived the explosion? How many
> > occupants might each ring have had? That`s before any subsequent orgy of
> > bloodtheft, of course.
>
># occupants:
>Circle A: ~10
>Circle B: 50
>Circle C: 250
>Circle D: 1250
>Circle E: 5000

How many total people were there on the battlefield do you think? Were
there many who were outside the "blast radius" of the explosion and, thus,
remained commoners?

>% Survived:
>Circle A: >50%
>Circle B: 40%
>Circle C: 20%
>Circle D: 10%
>Circle E: 5%

So just to be clear there would then have been

Total participants:
Circle A: 6-8
Circle B: 120
Circle C: 1,250
Circle D: 12,500
Circle E: 100,000

Gary

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[Trevyr]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion
> [mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Gary

> ># occupants:
> >Circle A: ~10
> >Circle B: 50
> >Circle C: 250
> >Circle D: 1250
> >Circle E: 5000
>
> How many total people were there on the battlefield do you think? Were
> there many who were outside the "blast radius" of the explosion and, thus,
> remained commoners?

I`m guessing at first approach that there were maybe 10,000 Cerilian humans
against perhaps 50,000 total Adurian humans (and humanoids), of which
perhaps 10,000 had arrived by the time the battle was joined. And once the
Cerilians had committed to battle about 5,000 elves appeared out of hiding
to join the Adurians.

> >% Survived:
> >Circle A: >50%
> >Circle B: 40%
> >Circle C: 20%
> >Circle D: 10%
> >Circle E: 5%
>
> So just to be clear there would then have been
>
> Total participants:
> Circle A: 6-8
> Circle B: 120
> Circle C: 1,250
> Circle D: 12,500
> Circle E: 100,000

Actually I was thinking the other way around: of about 5000 persons who
gained a tainted bloodline, perhaps 250 (5%) survived. But if you like it
the other way around I have no particular objection, other that that it
raises the scale of things a bit more that I see as reasonable for this
economic stage.

Mark V.

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[Nikolai II]

If 8k defenders, against them I'd go with 15k invaders + 2k Vos + 3k elves. Elves switched side, so they fought for both parties.

Something like that, IMHO. Does any novel or sourcebook give any figures?

[geeman]

At 08:34 AM 3/21/2003 -0600, Mark Van der Meulen wrote:

>I`m guessing at first approach that there were maybe 10,000 Cerilian
>humans against perhaps 50,000 total Adurian humans (and humanoids), of
>which perhaps 10,000 had arrived by the time the battle was joined. And
>once the Cerilians had committed to battle about 5,000 elves appeared out
>of hiding
>to join the Adurians.

This is interesting because estimates of the numbers of people present at
Deismaar--not just the above one but all that have been suggested--are
remarkably smaller than I had thought they would be. I don`t know why but
I had just assumed it was a fantastically (impossibly) large battle
involving nearly all the able-bodied combatant in Cerilia and Aduria for
about 500 miles.... It was the kind of thing that the gods themselves
showed up at--even a dragon or two showed up--so it seems likely that they
would have "called" everyone to the battle that they could, and because of
the nature of that call everyone who could appear would have.

Battles involving the tens of thousands are, of course, huge endeavors and
nothing to sniff at. I had thought it would have been on a scale not
really possible to represent in BR "domain level" terms; hundreds of
thousands, maybe into the lower 7 digits and an explosion that covered a
couple of provinces.

>Actually I was thinking the other way around: of about 5000 persons who
>gained a tainted bloodline, perhaps 250 (5%) survived. But if you like it
>the other way around I have no particular objection, other that that it
>raises the scale of things a bit more that I see as reasonable for this
>economic stage.

Yikes, that`d make for less than a thousand scions after Deismaar. I think
there should be more than that.

Gary

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