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  1. #1
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    If one were to map out a sort of topography of the explosion at Deismaar
    with the "shockwave" of divine energies that infused the attendant mortals
    with bloodlines depicted as rings how big might those rings be?

    There are five categories of bloodline strength; tainted, minor, major,
    great and true. Strength was originally linked to a character`s proximity
    to "ground zero" of the explosion. (One might also speculate that
    bloodline score of those originally infused was directly related to
    proximity, only becoming variable due to events following the battle.) In
    addition, there is a small group of individuals who ascended to godhood due
    to their exposure to the energies of that explosion, so we can hypothesize
    five "rings" surrounding an "inner circle" that represents the explosion`s
    "ground zero" for the purposes of such a topographical map.

    One radius of the circle might look like this:

    A| B | C | D | E | F | --->

    Where:
    A=characters who ascended
    B=true
    C=great
    D=major
    E=minor
    F=tainted

    Optionally, those characters who got a true bloodline could also be at
    "ground zero" along with the mortals who ascended (that`s my reading, at
    least) but did not ascend for reasons beyond their (or our) ken--much to
    the chagrin of at least one of them.... For the purpose of speculation we
    can just put the inner circle in along with the first ring if we want to go
    with that.

    Of course, the rings needn`t be perfect circles. We don`t know how (or if)
    the explosion was affected by the actual topography, weather, etc. For the
    purpose of the basic idea here it doesn`t really make a difference,
    though. "Average" width will do.

    The question: how wide is inner circle A and each ring B-F?

    Related questions: How many people survived the explosion? How many
    occupants might each ring have had? That`s before any subsequent orgy of
    bloodtheft, of course.

    Gary

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  2. #2
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    I don`t beleive in the Ground Zero concept at all. I beleive that the amout
    of bloodline strength absorbed depends more on your spiritual affinity to
    the various dieties that dies. Why else would the greatest generals aquire
    the greatest bloodlines? If it was merely physical distance that dictated
    things, the gods would not be the former generals but former footsoldiers -
    who, by sheer weight of numbers, is likely to be closest to any given point
    in space. And why id only Azrais generals pick up Azrais bloodline and
    Andurias generals pick up Andurias bloodline?

    If we use mere geographical distance, we have to postulate that the
    explosion wiped out everybody who did not have a sufficient number of HP in
    teh area, leaving only the high-level characters alive to absorb the
    bloodlines. But I still prefer spiritual closeness to physical closeness as
    the deciding factor.

    /Carl

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  3. #3
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    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion
    > [mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Gary

    > If one were to map out a sort of topography of the explosion at Deismaar
    > with the "shockwave" of divine energies that infused the attendant mortals
    > with bloodlines depicted as rings how big might those rings be?

    Interesting question, although I will say to start out that my conception of
    how things happened at Deismaar is a little different than yours. There is a
    picture of Deismaar somewhere that shows some human-scale figures fighting
    in the foreground, and some god-scale figures fighting in the clouds above
    them. This is more how I`ve always figured things went. The gods fought in
    physical but godly form right over the peak of Mt. Deismaar, while their
    allies fought on a battlefield or a series of battlefields sort of on the
    eastern slopes of the mountains. So, when the gods did their kaplooey thing,
    I really imagine it more like their essences attempt to tranfer to the gods`
    champions, but the champions, while they absorb MOST of the essence, cannot
    absorb it quickly enough, and a goodly portion of it spreads out from their
    locations. This means that instead of a single "ground zero" there would be
    seven `ground zeroes` around not where the gods stood, but around where
    their champions stood.

    This picture, incidentally, allows me to justify two things: 1.) after the
    godsdeath, the Deismaar landbridge was destroyed/sunk under the sea, and 2.)
    there were people at Deismaar who weren`t instantly pummeled to death from
    the pressure front, buried by the debris cloud, or drowned with the sinking
    landscape. This is because the gods were a goodly bit away from their lowly
    followers, the debris cloud spread largely in a southerly direction (killing
    the REST of Azrai`s army, which hadn`t even made it to Deismaar yet), and
    most of those who escaped where either at the north end of the battlefield
    where the land sank more slowly and they had time to make it to safer
    ground, or were close to the shore and got out on the Masetian ships which
    managed to avoid the giant whirlpools that formed as the land sank.

    Incidentally, I`ve always placed the battle on the eastern slopes of
    Deismaar so the Masetian ships could play a role, but I suspect that the
    argument could be made that the main land-path was probably on the Western
    side of the mountain, since those who crossed it seem to have spread mainly
    north and west, leaving the east for the Basarji to colonize. This argument
    may depend on the extent to which the Adurian refugees could rely on
    adequate shipping or whether they moved primarily by land. I think there is
    good evidense that the Andu at least took largely a land route (so they
    could take their horses with them), but I`m less sure of the Ryuvik and the
    Brecht.

    Oh, bless me, I`ve forgotten about the Vos. Oh, well, perhaps it`s not that
    good of an argument.

    > There are five categories of bloodline strength; tainted, minor, major,
    > great and true. Strength was originally linked to a character`s proximity
    > to "ground zero" of the explosion. (One might also speculate that
    > bloodline score of those originally infused was directly related to
    > proximity, only becoming variable due to events following the battle.) In
    > addition, there is a small group of individuals who ascended to
    > godhood due
    > to their exposure to the energies of that explosion, so we can hypothesize
    > five "rings" surrounding an "inner circle" that represents the explosion`s
    > "ground zero" for the purposes of such a topographical map.
    <snip>

    One might be able to make a case for Tainted bloodlines being a degeration
    of a stronger bloodline, rather than a "natural" catagory that existed
    immediately post-deismaar. The word does seem to imply that, but I don`t
    want to read too much into that.

    > Optionally, those characters who got a true bloodline could also be at
    > "ground zero" along with the mortals who ascended (that`s my reading, at
    > least) but did not ascend for reasons beyond their (or our) ken--much to
    > the chagrin of at least one of them.... For the purpose of speculation we
    > can just put the inner circle in along with the first ring if we
    > want to go
    > with that.

    Well, how`s this for some heavy-duty kenning. The entirety of each god`s
    essence was INTENDED (if that`s the right word) to go directly into their
    champions. However, because the champions were only humans, they couldn`t
    absorb the "stream" of godpower fast enough--at least at first. As the
    champions underwent apotheosis, they shortly "grew" enough to absorb the
    entire stream, so that the entire (say) last half of the godsblood went
    solely to them, completing their transformation. (I may speculate that
    Kriesha was in the process of healing Belenik when the apotheosis occurred,
    which is why both ascended rather than only one).

    Thus, instead of a "pool" of godstuff `deepest` at the center and shallower
    at the edges, you get an expanding ring of power. Those closest to the ring
    get a more concentrated dose, but as the ring expands it thins out, so those
    more distant get smaller doses. This explains the bimodality of the
    distribution pretty well. We don`t have a plethora of demigods and godlets
    running around because MOST of the godsblood was absorbed by the champions,
    while those around them could at most absorb a small fraction of the initial
    "oversplash."

    > Of course, the rings needn`t be perfect circles. We don`t know
    > how (or if)
    > the explosion was affected by the actual topography, weather,
    > etc. For the
    > purpose of the basic idea here it doesn`t really make a difference,
    > though. "Average" width will do.
    >
    > The question: how wide is inner circle A and each ring B-F?

    Caveat emptor.
    Circle A (True bloodlines): 10`
    Circle B (Great bloodlines): 30`
    Circle C (Major bloodlines): 90`
    Circle D (Minor bloodlines): 270`
    Circle E (Tainted bloodlines): 1/2 mile or so

    > Related questions: How many people survived the explosion? How many
    > occupants might each ring have had? That`s before any subsequent orgy of
    > bloodtheft, of course.

    # occupants:
    Circle A: ~10
    Circle B: 50
    Circle C: 250
    Circle D: 1250
    Circle E: 5000

    % Survived:
    Circle A: >50%
    Circle B: 40%
    Circle C: 20%
    Circle D: 10%
    Circle E: 5%

    Is that enough wild speculation for you? I`ve got more...

    Mark

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  4. #4
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    I'am not shure if "divine energy" should behave like physical shockwaves. Further I don't think that the gods were that much centered. So IMO it should be possible that someone in circle X ascended to a minor bloodline and an other in the same circle to a major bloodline.
    my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....

  5. #5
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 10:49 AM 3/20/2003 +0100, Azrai wrote:

    > I`am not shure if "divine energy" should behave like physical
    > shockwaves. Further I don`t think that the gods were that much centered.
    > So IMO it should be possible that someone in circle X ascended to a minor
    > bloodline and an other in the same circle to a major bloodline.

    What I`m really trying to get at here was the size and scope of the
    explosion, the particulars of how bloodlines were infused aside. Whether
    there were six (or seven) "ground zero" places or whatever, under the most
    abstract concept of how bloodlines were created there had to have been some
    radius for the effect. Characters in far off Vosgaard weren`t infused with
    a bloodline, while those within a certain perimeter were. Proximity was
    playing a part.

    So under any and all interpretations of how bloodline was infused upon
    those present--whether it occurred in concentric circles or whether it was
    a single area of effect that influenced the individuals in it according to
    some category other than their proximity to the primary figures, or any
    other possibility--what are the distances involved? What was the range and
    diameter of the explosion?

    Gary

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  6. #6
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    Where is Deismaar?

  7. #7
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    I think everyone on the battle site was affected more or less, and basically
    nobody else.

    How large was the battle of Diesmar? Howe many people were there? How large
    was the field of battle? How mobile was the battle? There is a lot we don`t
    know.

    This all boils down to the cultural level we assume these people had at the
    time. I`d say that perhaps there were 10,000 people from each of the five
    peoples and perhaps twice as many from Aduria - 150,000 men in all. And that
    is guessing very, very high. How large an area do these people need to fight
    on?

    But does it really make a difference? Isn`t it just enough to say that it
    affected everyone present more or less, and almost nobody else? Perhaps a
    cleric in deep rapport with a dying deity could be affected even if
    presently somewhere else, but I can`t remember any such from the sources.

    I guess what you are really aiming for is how many people gained bloodlines
    at Diesmar? That is a genuine issue, one I`m sure the heralds of Anuire are
    constantly wrestling with - but I`m afraid I can`t give you an answer, and I
    think that speculations should be based on the distribution of bloodlines
    that we know of, rather than topographical data from the battle.

    /Carl


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Gary" <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET>
    To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
    Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:22 AM
    Subject: Re: How Big Was the Bang at Deismaar? [2#1463]


    > At 10:49 AM 3/20/2003 +0100, Azrai wrote:
    >
    > > I`am not shure if "divine energy" should behave like physical
    > > shockwaves. Further I don`t think that the gods were that much
    centered.
    > > So IMO it should be possible that someone in circle X ascended to a
    minor
    > > bloodline and an other in the same circle to a major bloodline.
    >
    > What I`m really trying to get at here was the size and scope of the
    > explosion, the particulars of how bloodlines were infused aside. Whether
    > there were six (or seven) "ground zero" places or whatever, under the most
    > abstract concept of how bloodlines were created there had to have been
    some
    > radius for the effect. Characters in far off Vosgaard weren`t infused
    with
    > a bloodline, while those within a certain perimeter were. Proximity was
    > playing a part.
    >
    > So under any and all interpretations of how bloodline was infused upon
    > those present--whether it occurred in concentric circles or whether it was
    > a single area of effect that influenced the individuals in it according to
    > some category other than their proximity to the primary figures, or any
    > other possibility--what are the distances involved? What was the range
    and
    > diameter of the explosion?
    >
    > Gary
    >
    >
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  8. #8
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    > kingrick wrote:
    > Where is Deismaar?

    It was located where the straights of Aerele are today.

    -Anakin Miller
    -------------------------
    "What was sundered, shall be remade.
    What was stolen, shall be avenged. "
    - Engraved on the Crown of Diemed

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    Who are you to speak to me of loneliness, you who have not suffered as I have suffered. My father was lord of the Andu, ruler of a million souls, but not once did he ever claim me as his son. All those years I waited for a single word from him, a simple acknowledgment of my birthright. But, not even on his death bed did he claim me as his. So do not speak to me of your loneliness, you who have never been as alone as I have been all my life.

    - Prince Raesene Andu, -2 HC.

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by AnakinMiller

    It was located where the straights of Aerele are today.
    The exact location is not for shure. The designers left it open. Personally I placed Deismaar at the Arnienbae, it looks like a "big hole" there....
    my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....

  10. #10
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    IMO Deismaar is indeed in the Straits of Aerele. The explosion was so great, that an gargantuan hole appeared that was so deep that it only could be filled with water.

    IMO the explosion must have been like the meteorits who crushed on Jupiter a few years ago. It must be heard till the place where the Magian lives today (hours later of course).

    I don't think there is one "ground zero", but six explosions (resulting in the seventh) might be reasonable.
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

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