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Thread: Chapter 2 Poll 3 - ECLs
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03-16-2003, 07:51 AM #61
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On Sat, 15 Mar 2003, Mourn wrote:
> If that 1st-level character is truly "average," then he would fail a
> DC 15 check according to probability. An average ability score is 10
> (+0 modifier), which means that the average check would be a 14, which
> is just shy of that 15 DC.
Wrong. He would succeed half the time, which is the point of making an
`average` target. If the DC is 15 and he has a +4 modifier for skills but
no stat mod, then for half the rolls (1-10), his total will fail, the
other half the rolls, he`ll succeed. Taking 10 is meant to be useful for
skills you`re much better at than +4.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu
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03-17-2003, 04:59 PM #62Originally posted by geeman
I think you missed the fundamental way it would work. You don`t "take" scion levels as presented in the same way that one takes levels in other classes. That is, you don`t level up into them. They represent bloodline strength the same way bloodline strength score does. You determine bloodline strength the same way you do in another system, find that scion level and then add the appropriate HD, BAB, saves, skills and special
(blood) abilities. A mighty fighter, say 10th level, would still be a mighty fighter with a few levels of scion tacked on.May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!
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03-21-2003, 08:48 AM #63
What would you guys think of adding up ECLs for bloodline by decimal
points? That is, what if the factors of bloodline were broken up into two
or more groups and each factor had it`s own ECL rating expressed in a
manner like this (expressed bloodline score in the "traditional" 2e manner):
Blood
line ECL
10 0.1
15 0.2
20 0.3
25 0.4
30 0.5
35 0.6
40 0.7
45 0.8
Meanwhile blood abilities might have a similar treatment:
Ability
Power ECL
Minor 0.2
Major 0.4
Great 0.6
A character with a bloodline score of 25, a minor and a major blood ability
would then have an ECL of 0.4 + 0.2 + 0.4 = 1. A character with a
bloodline score of 45 and two great blood abilities would have an ECL of
0.8 + 0.6 + 0.6 = 2.
The actual numbers would be different, of course, and the ECL numbers would
accompany tables having to do with each of those factors... and the idea
would be fleshed out a bit, but that`s the basic concept.
What do you think?
Gary
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03-21-2003, 08:22 PM #64
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Originally posted by geeman
What do you think?
I walk this fine thread...
Mourn
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03-21-2003, 09:27 PM #65
At 09:22 PM 3/21/2003 +0100, Mourn wrote:
>I`ve thought about that, myself. But what about a character that has a
>ECL +.9? Technically, you round down (the PHB says that about any
>fractional numbers), so they wouldn`t be an ECL increase, but they would
>be just shy of that mark, but they are just about as strong as an ECL+1.
I think this is one of those cases where you could change the typical rule
and say "round off" rather than round down. In writing this up a bit over
the past two days I through that in and it seems to work out OK--testing
will be required. There is always the possibility that pathological
min/max players will avoid getting to X.5 in order to keep their ECL
modifier at the lower digit, but at a certain point that`s unavoidable in a
system of ECL.
In general, I`m starting to favor a system of EL/ECL/CR that would have a
single decimal point after the level numbers, so for my purposes I`d
probably go with the actual decimal rather than round anything. A decimal
point is more accurate and allows one to account for many factors other
than just character level and things like templates--fractions from
characters having more gp value in their inventory than is typical for
their character level, ability scores higher or lower than the standard
array, etc. It`s really not all that complex either when one thinks about
it. It is, however, a change to the core system that I think would be a
bit drastic in campaign material, so rounding is the better option for our
purposes here.
Gary
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03-22-2003, 12:56 AM #66
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There has to be an easier booking way to determine ECLs than this. It is starting to need more booking than the RP collection method in the proposed document, or at least what many perceive as a lot of bookkeeping. In any event this method definitely has more bookkeeping than the skill based progressive method of RP collection that was proposed and hence based on the comments generated it should be simplified.:)
Duane Eggert
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03-22-2003, 04:18 AM #67
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Uh the more complicated this gets the less likely I will even use this conversion.
Plus if I do say so myself. That ECL makeup you got is the stupidest thing I've read.
So you are suppose to randomly determine what ECL your character gets? Uh and if not then everyone will have a bloodline but wont get enough powers to qualify for a ECL 1.
Retarded.
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03-22-2003, 04:27 AM #68
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Ecliptic,
Please try to keep your comments on a more professional type of tone. Comments like the ones you made, well the phrasing. I think the commments could have been made with a less personal tone.
If comments are perceived as insulting then we end up in a flame war and nothing can ever get done. I think we all have to remind ourselves that there is a person on the other end of everyone's sig and ask would I like to be addressed in this manner?:)Duane Eggert
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03-22-2003, 08:25 AM #69
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Originally posted by Mourn
For example, let's take a minor scion (Ftr5, Bld 18) and a major scion (Ftr5, Bld 12). According to the rules, the minor scion is an ECL 5, and the major scion is an ECL 6. The minor scion has a +4 modifier, and the major scion has a +1 modifier. The minor scion has 3 bloodline abilities, all minor, and the major scion has one minor ability.
The minor scion is obviously the stronger of the two, due to the abilities gained and the strength of the score, and the major scion is the weaker. However, due to the rules, the major scion is considered a higher ECL.
If you randomly generate the attibutes, there can be no balance by definition, but the end result is similar. The difference is that a series of extremely good or bad rolls can unbalance thing. But the relative value of the two character concepts, assuming the same dire rolls, remain about the same.
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03-22-2003, 12:44 PM #70
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> ecliptic wrote:
> Uh the more complicated this gets the less likely I will even use this
conversion.
You mean you don`t think its all ready complicated? Anytime you have to add
more skills than you can count on one hand, cross reference multiple charts
and multiply to get percentages, something is wrong.
-Anakin Miller
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What was stolen, shall be avenged. "
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