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Thread: Bloodtheft

  1. #1
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    The system for bloodtheft is really clunky and bogs down gameplay pretty easily. Here's the one I use.

    Bloodtheft
    You can perform bloodtheft by performing a coup de grace against a helpless scion. If the coup de grace kills the character, you increase your Bloodline score by the victim's Bloodline modifier (thus a character with a Bloodline score of 14 killing a character with a 16 would gain a +3 bonus to his Bloodline score). Thus, killing the Gorgon (Bld 60) would grant a character a +25 to their Bloodline score.

    Corruption
    Your bloodline can become corrupted by the overwhelming power of another character's bloodline. If your bloodtheft victim's Bloodline score is higher than yours, you must make a Bloodline check (DC 10 + 1/2 the victim's HD + the victim's Bld modifier) or immediately switch derivation to that character's bloodline. Thus, killing the Gorgon almost guarantees that a character switches to Azrai's bloodline (DC 10 + 20 + 25 = 55).

    Becoming a Scion
    A non-scion character can perform bloodtheft on a scion, as per the system for bloodtheft. Thus, a non-scion that performs bloodtheft on a scion with a Bloodline of 16 would gain a Bloodline score of 3, of the scion's derivation.
    I walk this fine thread...

    Mourn

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    Bloodtheft
    You can perform bloodtheft by performing a coup de grace against a helpless scion. If the coup de grace kills the character, you increase your Bloodline score by the victim's Bloodline modifier (thus a character with a Bloodline score of 14 killing a character with a 16 would gain a +3 bonus to his Bloodline score). Thus, killing the Gorgon (Bld 60) would grant a character a +25 to their Bloodline score.
    Unfortunately that would not take into account diminishing returns... The Gorgon, for instance, would still gain +3 bloodline points from slaying a 16 bloodline scion... And I'm sure old Raesene will have slain a few more in his time than 60 bloodline points would show with this rule.
    Alice laughed. `There's no use trying,' she said: `one CAN'T believe impossible things.'
    `I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast'

    -- "Through the Looking Glass", Lewis Caroll

  3. #3
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    Mourn wrote:

    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1395
    >
    > Mourn wrote:
    > The system for bloodtheft is really clunky and bogs down gameplay pretty easily. Here`s the one I use.
    >
    >Bloodtheft
    >You can perform bloodtheft by performing a coup de grace against a helpless scion. If the coup de grace kills the character, you increase your Bloodline score by the victim`s Bloodline modifier (thus a character with a Bloodline score of 14 killing a character with a 16 would gain a +3 bonus to his Bloodline score). Thus, killing the Gorgon (Bld 60) would grant a character a +25 to their Bloodline score.
    >
    That is easy.

    However there is a problem the other way: What happens when the Gorgon
    (or any other being with a great/true bloodline) kills a scion? Does he
    get the bloodline modifier EVERY time? If so, then why should he, as
    mentioned in the books, "harvest" bloodlines so that they grow stronger
    and stronger before he moves in for the kill after a generation? You
    need a mechanic to make bloodtheft on scions far below your own score
    fruitless - else the Gorgon could kill any scion with a bloodline
    modifier of +1 or more and increase his own bloodline every time, no
    need for "harvesting".

    >Corruption
    >Your bloodline can become corrupted by the overwhelming power of another character`s bloodline. If your bloodtheft victim`s Bloodline score is higher than yours, you must make a Bloodline check (DC 10 + 1/2 the victim`s HD + the victim`s Bld modifier) or immediately switch derivation to that character`s bloodline. Thus, killing the Gorgon almost guarantees that a character switches to Azrai`s bloodline (DC 10 + 20 + 25 = 55).
    >
    Why the victims HD? In the case of the Gorgon or other scions of Azrai
    with Bloodform it would seem to make sense, however in any other case
    what connection does the body of the victim have to the divine blood?
    And even for those with bloodform - that they have bloodform is a result
    of their bloodline and you already add the victims bld modifier to the DC.

    Azrais Bloodline is the one which should stay as the easiest to "infect"
    the slayers blood, as he was the god of evil, lies and corruption would
    be his way to have his bloodline survive despite the attempts of the
    other bloodliens scions to wipe his scions out. To reflect this it
    should be harder to avoid the corruption of Azrais blood and/or easier
    to avoid the corruption of the other bloodlines - or even only a
    voluntary act, e.g. scion of Vorynn (a fighter!) slays a scion of
    Anduiras - he chooses to change to the bloodline of Anduiras, like
    Atonement for alignment as "corruption" is not the way of the other gods.

    >Becoming a Scion
    >A non-scion character can perform bloodtheft on a scion, as per the system for bloodtheft. Thus, a non-scion that performs bloodtheft on a scion with a Bloodline of 16 would gain a Bloodline score of 3, of the scion`s derivation.
    >
    I do not like that at all.
    The only documented moment that non-blooded people became blooded is
    Deismaar and there were large, huge, extreme, overwhelming amounts of
    godsblood present as several gods died in a cataclysm.

    The 2 E rulebood even said that (p. 31) death of a scion at the hand of
    an unblooded commoner is the same as natural death = no bloodtheft at
    all, no new scion.

    In my opinion it should be extremely unlikely that a non-blooded
    commoner becomes blooded through bloodtheft. Most storys about NPC´s
    mention that the blood of the slayer was "awakened" or similar through
    the kill, like a scion with a tainted score raising his score after the
    bloodtheft. And not that a non-blooded person became blooded.

    The exceptions could be a VERY small chance for a non-blooded person to
    become blooded - be it a fortitude save or whatever, or the requirement
    that the non-blooded person has to use a tighmaevril weapon to be able
    to commit bloodtheft and become blooded.
    bye
    Michael Romes

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  4. #4
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    Originally posted by ConjurerDragon
    >Becoming a Scion
    >A non-scion character can perform bloodtheft on a scion, as per the system for bloodtheft. Thus, a non-scion that performs bloodtheft on a scion with a Bloodline of 16 would gain a Bloodline score of 3, of the scion`s derivation.
    >
    I do not like that at all.
    The only documented moment that non-blooded people became blooded is
    Deismaar and there were large, huge, extreme, overwhelming amounts of
    godsblood present as several gods died in a cataclysm.
    BRCS Playtest document, page 38-39.

    Non-blooded characters can become scions by being present for usurpation.
    I walk this fine thread...

    Mourn

  5. #5
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    > Mourn wrote:
    >
    Originally posted by ConjurerDragon
    > >Becoming a Scion
    > >A non-scion character can perform bloodtheft on a scion, as per the
    system for bloodtheft. Thus, a non-scion that performs bloodtheft on a scion
    with a Bloodline of 16 would gain a Bloodline score of 3, of the scion`s
    derivation.
    > >
    > I do not like that at all.
    > The only documented moment that non-blooded people became blooded is
    > Deismaar and there were large, huge, extreme, overwhelming amounts of
    > godsblood present as several gods died in a cataclysm.
    >
    >

    Don`t forget "The Land`s Choice".


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  6. #6
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    > I do not like that at all.
    > The only documented moment that non-blooded people became blooded is
    > Deismaar and there were large, huge, extreme, overwhelming amounts of
    > godsblood present as several gods died in a cataclysm.

    Adding to the list, several rulers are listed as having been non-blooded and
    invested with the bloodline of a previous ruler. Such would beg the
    question, is bloodtheft more of a sacred ritual, like investiture, no matter
    how violent or unintended.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  7. #7
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    Mourn wrote:

    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1395
    >
    > Mourn wrote:
    >
    Originally posted by ConjurerDragon
    >
    >>Becoming a Scion
    >>A non-scion character can perform bloodtheft on a scion, as per the system for bloodtheft. Thus, a non-scion that performs bloodtheft on a scion with a Bloodline of 16 would gain a Bloodline score of 3, of the scion`s derivation.
    >>
    >I do not like that at all.
    >The only documented moment that non-blooded people became blooded is
    >Deismaar and there were large, huge, extreme, overwhelming amounts of
    >godsblood present as several gods died in a cataclysm.
    >
    >
    >BRCS Playtest document, page 38-39.
    >
    >Non-blooded characters can become scions by being present for usurpation.
    >
    Yes, I know. However I was referring to the text of the 2E Birthright
    rulebook, by which non-blooded people can´t simply stab a scion through
    the heart and become a scion themselves. Bloodtheft of non-blooded on
    scions should be ,if allowed at all, extre mely rare and not just as
    likely as a scion killing a scion with the same consequences (that was
    in the example someone else wrote add the victims bloodline modifier to
    you, right?).

    The BRCS draft 0.0 had at least the non-blooded make a characterlevel
    check before being allowed to gain a bloodline.

    To have no requirement at all would mean that any unblooded peasant
    could become blooded simply by killing a scion
    And if the word spread that everyone could have his share of divine
    power simply by killing a scion, not by "receiving the right to rule
    from the gods"... 95% of the population could dream of becoming blooded
    by hunting the other 5% ;-)
    bye
    Michael Romes

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  8. #8
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    Kenneth Gauck wrote:

    >>I do not like that at all.
    >>The only documented moment that non-blooded people became blooded is
    >>Deismaar and there were large, huge, extreme, overwhelming amounts of
    >>godsblood present as several gods died in a cataclysm.
    >>
    >
    >Adding to the list, several rulers are listed as having been non-blooded and
    >invested with the bloodline of a previous ruler. Such would beg the
    >question, is bloodtheft more of a sacred ritual, like investiture, no matter
    >how violent or unintended.
    >Kenneth Gauck
    >kgauck@mchsi.com
    >
    The last part of your sentence was what I meant but did not explicitly
    write.
    I meant Deismaar was the only documented moment that non-blooded people
    became blooded by VIOLENT means where blooded beings died.
    I did not deny the option to become blooded by someone investing you
    with his bloodline through designation.
    bye
    Michael Romes

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  9. #9
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ConjurerDragon
    I meant Deismaar was the only documented moment that non-blooded people
    became blooded by VIOLENT means where blooded beings died.
    I did not deny the option to become blooded by someone investing you
    with his bloodline through designation.
    This section of the rules goes some way to explaining the info from Blood Enemies where several soon-to-be-awnsheghlien have attacked blooded scions and thus became blooded themselves.

    Some examples include The Boar, the Chimaera, the Harpy (to some extent), the Hydra, the Lamia, the Seadrake, and so on.

    Most of these examples occured during a violent encounter with a scion of Azrai, but there is no reason why other bloodlines could not also have a similar effect on unblooded characters.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

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    (Just thinking)
    That could be because the bloodline of Azrai moe than any other refuses to die and would rather transfer itself to another vessel no matter what (e.g the Boar).
    Speaking of which (slightly off topic) what happens to a bloodline when the vessel dies? Does it return to Cerilia? Likewise, how do people see the increase/loss of blood strength as a total sum? Does it stay constant? When a scion raises his bloodline does something somewhere lose out? Or is it possible for the actual divine essence to increase in potency as time passes?
    Alice laughed. `There's no use trying,' she said: `one CAN'T believe impossible things.'
    `I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast'

    -- "Through the Looking Glass", Lewis Caroll

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