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  1. #31
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    On Thu, 8 May 2003, Michael Romes wrote:

    > I did not calculate anything or make it up, I just wrote what is in
    > the rules. 8 INT costs no buypoints and the PHB states that the
    > average is 10-11.

    But are you claiming that this means there are no humans at all anywhere
    in the world who have any ability score less than 8? Furthermore, that
    there are no members of any species at all anywhere which have any score
    less than 8 plus their racial modifier? That has to be wrong.


    Ryan Caveney

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  2. #32
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    Ryan B. Caveney wrote:

    >On Thu, 8 May 2003, Michael Romes wrote:
    >
    >>I did not calculate anything or make it up, I just wrote what is in
    >>the rules. 8 INT costs no buypoints and the PHB states that the
    >>average is 10-11.
    >>
    >
    >But are you claiming that this means there are no humans at all anywhere
    >in the world who have any ability score less than 8?
    >
    No, only that there are no player characters with scores less than 8.
    bye
    Michael Romes

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  3. #33
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Ryan B. Caveney" <ryanb@CYBERCOM.NET>
    Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 11:59 AM


    > Yeah, I think that`s probably the way to go. However, if we`re going to
    > defense bonuses (which I like) I don`t think class level can be the *only*
    > thing affecting it

    True. I have reduced the AC effect of armor (light is +1, medium is +2, and
    heavy is +3, plus there is damage reduction, -/-, 1/-, and 2/- respectivly)
    and kept the whole other foruma (dex, feats, magic, &c) but added class.
    Fighting classes get a +3 class bonus to start with, clerical types get a
    +2, rogue types a +1, and mages get no starting bonus. This starting bonus
    only applies when you take your first adventuring class. From then on, you
    get a +1 class bonus when you get a new attack added because BAB exceeded a
    multiple of five.

    > A 12th-level fighter with his sword in his hand ought to be much
    > harder to hit than when he`s unarmed, because what keeps
    > people from hitting him is that he can block their weapon with
    > his, and that he is threatening to hit them first.

    The way I handle this is to allow the trade off between attacker attack
    bonus and attacker AC penalty. If I don`t fear your counter-attack because
    you are unarmed, and any attack probabaly provokes an AoO, I`ll throw all my
    effort into attack and let my armor defend me in the event you throw a
    nearby mug at me. Plus, the unarmed fellow can`t parry.

    > muck with BAB such that weapon skill helps both to-hit and AC
    > feats like Expertise and Power Attack would then function by
    > allowing the transfer of points from one pool to the other.

    I think the key here is to recognize that the trade off economy is between
    three axes, my attack, my defense, and my damage. Without any feats I can
    generally exchange a penalty for a bonus at a ratio of 2:1 up to a maximum
    bonus of +2 along a single axis. With the feats provided I can generally
    make a trade off at a 1:1 ratio along a single axis (Power Attack along the
    attack and damage axis, Expertise along the attack and defense axis). The
    next feat (BAB +12, and feats that allow shifting along any two axis) should
    allow you to make shifts simultaneously along all three axis. The max shift
    should probabaly remain 5, but an improved version might bump that up to 8
    (BAB +18?). But, see below.

    > I would also prefer a system in which weapons were less
    > interchangeable, and you had to develop skills in different types

    One way to do this is to create more weapon specific feats. Some, like
    weapon focus, just require a weapon indicator. Others would be designed for
    specific weapons. The feats I propose above should probabaly be limited to
    a weapon with which you have a weapon focus.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  4. #34
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    On Sat, 2003-05-10 at 03:45, Michael Romes wrote:
    > Ryan B. Caveney wrote:
    >
    > >On Thu, 8 May 2003, Michael Romes wrote:
    > >
    > >>I did not calculate anything or make it up, I just wrote what is in
    > >>the rules. 8 INT costs no buypoints and the PHB states that the
    > >>average is 10-11.
    > >>
    > >
    > >But are you claiming that this means there are no humans at all anywhere
    > >in the world who have any ability score less than 8?
    > >
    > No, only that there are no player characters with scores less than 8.
    > bye
    > Michael Romes

    The original argument (original D&D) for ability scores was that PLAYER
    characters were exceptional (whether the scores were high or low). The
    range for PLAYER characters was 3 to 18 - NPCs were always assumed to
    fall into the middle range, unexceptional either way (unless otherwise
    noted).

    It`s interesting that you are arguing almost the complete opposite point
    of view! I understand why you think that is reasonable. Personally, I
    don`t like point-buy systems at all (with a deep passion!!). But, I put
    it to you that it`s attitude - of players, DM and game designers that
    make for the imbalance.

    IMC, I have three character sheets with me, the other two are with the
    players themselves. Of the three I have, two characters have at least
    two scores less than 8 (and the other has an 8):
    (i) S9 I7 W11 D11 Co5 Ch11
    (ii) S17 I13 W6 D10 Co10 Ch6
    (iii) S13 I12 W11 D13 Co8 Ch14

    Player (ii) is a relative newbie at role-playing, but is doing an
    excellent job of portraying his relatively(!) low charisma. A normally
    effusive and outgoing person (he runs a bar), he has played his warrior
    character as surly, solitary, and disagreeable - yet still fully
    functional.

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