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  1. #1
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    greetings

    one of my players is a landed regent with a small but growing town. unfortunately for him a goblin chieften has designs for the area and is launching attacks to get them out. The town itself is unwalled but has a small keep. he wants to put up town walls to protect his people but i'm at a loss as how to do it. Fortify only covers castles and holdings while build is things like roads and bridges. any ideas.

    also the neighbouring province is the base of the goblin chief and his keep is heavily protected. scouts can discover the identity of any units in the province just by being in the home province. is there a way to block that?

    thanx


    mantyluoto

  2. #2
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    On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Mantyluoto wrote:
    > one of my players is a landed regent with a small but growing town.
    > unfortunately for him a goblin chieften has designs for the area and
    > is launching attacks to get them out. The town itself is unwalled but
    > has a small keep. he wants to put up town walls to protect his people
    > but i`m at a loss as how to do it. Fortify only covers castles and
    > holdings while build is things like roads and bridges. any ideas.

    Use fortify; his `castle` would just include the town walls as well, which
    makes sense since it is described as protecting the whole province.

    > also the neighbouring province is the base of the goblin chief and his
    > keep is heavily protected. scouts can discover the identity of any
    > units in the province just by being in the home province. is there a
    > way to block that?

    No. The existance of a couple hundred troops, assorted commanders,
    camp-hangers-on, mounts, baggage train, etc, is impossible to conceal.
    They use a large amount of resources, create lots of waste, distort the
    local economy spending all their pay on wine, and are generally noisy and
    easy to spot.
    --
    Communication is possible only between equals.
    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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  3. #3
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 09:28 PM 2/12/2003 +0100, Mantyluoto wrote:

    >one of my players is a landed regent with a small but growing town.
    >unfortunately for him a goblin chieften has designs for the area and is
    >launching attacks to get them out. The town itself is unwalled but has a
    >small keep. he wants to put up town walls to protect his people but i`m
    >at a loss as how to do it. Fortify only covers castles and holdings while
    >build is things like roads and bridges. any ideas.

    It sounds like you`re going for a slightly smaller scale than is probably
    typical of the BR domain rules. Using those domain rules it`s possible to
    abstract the concept of "a castle" into a sort of general, province-wide
    fortification since the way they function is that they must be reduced
    before the aggressor gains control over the province as a whole. Using
    such an abstraction a walled town in addition to a castle would simply
    represent a higher level castle in the province.

    If you`re not satisfied with that kind of thing you could modify the system
    a bit to allow for "population fortifications" that would, in effect, work
    much the same way that holding fortifications do. That is, the cost is for
    protecting the population level rather than the holding level and will work
    in much the same way that the holding fortifications do. You would then
    have a province (3/2) with a fortified population and a castle(2) in it. I
    think that`s pretty much what the Castle is supposed to do in the first
    place, but since your at a single province vs a single province scale and
    you`re player has a particular interest in that kind of thing, I think you
    could go for it without too drastic a change in the overall domain
    rules. Come to think of it, it`s probably not such a bad idea for the
    domain rules in general....

    >also the neighbouring province is the base of the goblin chief and his
    >keep is heavily protected. scouts can discover the identity of any units
    >in the province just by being in the home province. is there a way to
    >block that?

    Not in the current rules. Scouts have a nearly mystical ability to see
    into rival provinces, discerning the type and number of rival units in an
    area about 1,000 square miles.

    There`s been some discussion about how scouts work in the past with
    opinions varying quite a bit. My own opinion is that the scout`s ability
    to "see" into neighboring provinces should be replaced with an ability to
    cross a border without a "Declare War" action being performed and "hiding"
    in a rival province for a short time in order to report back the number and
    type of the troops in that province. The "hiding" scout unit is discovered
    by a DC 20 "search" check by the rival regent (+5 if the rival regent has a
    unit of scouts of his own in the province.) Failure means discovery and a
    probably one-sided combat. If the scouts are undiscovered a successful
    "search" checks on the part of the regent controlling the scout is
    necessary in order to get an accurate assessment. That makes it a pretty
    dicey thing to send scouts in alone, but it works better in conjunction
    with other units being sent in at the same time, which gives the scouts a
    sort of "free reconnoiter" for the rest of the army. If they succeed the
    invading army gets information on troops in the province and has the option
    of withdrawing before being engaged.

    Gary

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  4. #4
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    A keep is a fortified law holding - it protects only the administration and
    military organisation of a province. If the province is fortified, all
    firendly holdings are protected - city walls. There is no way to fortify a
    holding to prevent loss of province level, since you cannot fortify every
    farmstead.

    /Carl


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mantyluoto" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
    To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
    Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:28 PM
    Subject: town walls & concealing units [2#1335]


    > This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at:
    http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1335
    >
    > Mantyluoto wrote:
    > greetings
    >
    > one of my players is a landed regent with a small but growing town.
    unfortunately for him a goblin chieften has designs for the area and is
    launching attacks to get them out. The town itself is unwalled but has a
    small keep. he wants to put up town walls to protect his people but i`m at
    a loss as how to do it. Fortify only covers castles and holdings while build
    is things like roads and bridges. any ideas.
    >
    > also the neighbouring province is the base of the goblin chief and his
    keep is heavily protected. scouts can discover the identity of any units in
    the province just by being in the home province. is there a way to block
    that?
    >
    > thanx
    >
    >
    > mantyluoto
    >
    >
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  5. #5
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    thanx for your time.

    i've said that when the castle is built they can add wooden palisade to the town. the castle will eventually expand and they can upgrade the walls etc.

    and while i agree about the scouts i want the "enemy" to conceal a few units, since the stronghold is goblin i'm going to assume that the units were under ground. i cant see any human getting into a goblin pit without lots of magic and there scouts just dont have it.

    cheers([_]

  6. #6
    Senior Member blitzmacher's Avatar
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    >and while i agree about the scouts i want the "enemy" to conceal a few units, since the >stronghold is goblin i'm going to assume that the units were under ground. i cant see >any human getting into a goblin pit without lots of magic and there scouts just dont >have it.

    You could try a spot check for the scouts, and a hide check for the goblin units.
    Cattle die and kinsmen die,
    thyself too soon must die,
    but one thing never, I ween, will die, --
    fair fame of one who has earned.
    HAVAMAL

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Birthright goblins no longer live underground, which is why they don't have the penalties that the standard goblins had in daylight. I would strongly urge not to try to meld both types of goblins together, either they are underground dwellers and get the associated benefits/penalties or they are surface dwellers and don't have underground keeps and such but get to keep the ability to operate in daylight. (2nd ed rules)
    Duane Eggert

  8. #8
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    >
    > blitzmacher wrote:
    > >and while i agree about the scouts i want the "enemy" to
    > conceal a few units, since the >stronghold is goblin i`m
    > going to assume that the units were under ground. i cant see
    > >any human getting into a goblin pit without lots of magic
    > and there scouts just dont >have it.
    >
    > You could try a spot check for the scouts, and a hide check
    > for the goblin units.
    >

    Maybe the rules I`m using in ItSoD2 PBeM can help a little. These rules
    were Michael Romes` idea, but modified a little.

    Scouts do not gather information automatically. Each unit of scouts can
    do an actions per month. The actions are:

    Scouting: Discover numbers and base type of troops in a single province.
    Elven Scouts cannot be spotted with this action while in forest, except
    by other Elven Scouts.

    Counter-Scouting: Prevent enemy Scouts from scouting into the province.
    One unit of Scouts can prevent only one enemy unit of Scouts from
    scouting. Elven Scouts cannot be prevented in the forest except by other
    Elven Scouts.

    Cover Operation: Scouts can aid an Espionage action, adding +2 per unit.

    Covert Movement: On successful d20 + exp bonus check against DC 5 +
    number of enemy units, the scouts can move undetected through a province
    occupied by enemy troops. If the check fails, 1 hit of Scouts per fast
    (move>1) enemy unit are imprisoned.

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  9. #9
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    irdeggman wrote:


    >Birthright goblins no longer live underground, which is why they don`t
    >have the penalties that the standard goblins had in daylight. I would
    >strongly urge not to try to meld both types of goblins together, either
    >they are underground dwellers and get the associated benefits/penalties
    or >they are surface dwellers and don`t have underground keeps and such
    but >get to keep the ability to operate in daylight. (2nd ed rules)

    BR goblins never had any daylight penalties; indeed they are noted as
    NOT being hindered by sunlight (though they like it overcast). I never
    got the impression that they spent a lot of time underground, but rather
    live in small clans on the surface just as humans do. One exception
    though; the realm of Kal-Kalator is described as having underground
    warrens, but that may be a special trait of that realm.

    Cheers Bjørn

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    Cheers
    Bjørn
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