Chapter 2 - Blood Abilities

[kgauck]

Arguing that Bloodmark is irrelevant is like arguing that Arthur pulling the
sword from the stone was a meaningless act. Or that if a wife`s wedding
ring is replaced by some other ring of equal value, she won`t demand the
original back.

The bloodmark is a visible manifestation of the mystical bond between a
ruler and his realm and a ruler and his people. In a society that takes a
birthright as a serious thing, that`s about all you need to demonstrate your
legitimacy. William Moergan will be a perpetual problem to Jaison Raenech
because he can show up, display his bloodmark and be hailed as the true and
righful duke.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Shade]

>Better Vassals? ;-)
>Taeghas and Brosengae were on Boeruines side during Michale Roeles
>ascension to the throne - they can change again sides. And as both are
>constantly on the brink of civil war Avan can be kept busy by this alone
>(if he has only Magician lieutenants and not good diplomats to send...)

I think Avanil has better vassals. Let`s look at it this way:

Avanil Boeruine
------ --------
Taeghas = Talinie
PAI = Arien Borthein
WIT > NIT
Harald Khor = Arlen Innis
Mieres/AV
Brosengae/EM

As written Talinie and Taeghas are both pretty reliable and comparable in
size. Arlen Innis is higher level, but Harald Khorien has more
sources/bloodline and therefore more RP, so I count them as pretty much
equal. AB and PAI both kind of suck, as their bloodlines are small. WIT is
an awesomely powerful domain on its own (huge holdings and income,
4th-largest non-awnshegh bloodline in all of Anuire) and seems to be
extremely reliable, and clearly superior to NIT. On top of this advantage,
Avan has 2 unreliable vassals, Brosengae and Mieres, that at least for the
time being provide him with tribute and therefore a bigger advantage over
Boeruine.

As for the Magician lieutenant issue, you are responding to a different
thread and I`ll rebut your point there.

>Mieres could be cut off at any time the seadrake wishes and the governor
>does not seem overly trustworthy. Something interesting that was brought
>up in COG II: The temples of Eloele in Mieres (a vassal of Avan) could
>easily be used to discredit Avan as next emperor - after all the Emperor
>is the protector of Anuire, of which Haelyn is patron! And AVAN allows
>the temples of the goddess of thiefs prosper in his vassals lands? ;-)

You could make that point, but I doubt that who becomes the next Emperor of
Anuire is going to be decided by who has a vassal with a temple of Eloele
in his lands.

Besides, in many places in the books, the designers imply that there are
unwanted holdings in several realms, and the rulers have tried to get rid
of them and can`t. Just because a holding exists in a particular place
doesn`t mean a regent wants it there or is actively supporting it.

In PBeMs, IMHO DMs never do a good job of portraying the real consequences
of invading your own provinces and burning down holdings. I would think
such a horrible action would result in complete hatred from the populace,
if you burn down temples that they have been attending for years, or guilds
that employed them and all their neighbors. If such an action was really as
easy as PBeMs make it, no landed regent would ever have an unwanted holding
in his realm for longer than 1 or 2 seasons. Why then do the published
realms have unwanted holdings in almost every other domain?

Case in point - do you think that because the Brotherhood of Khet or the
Society of the Serpent exist in a number of Khinasi kingdoms, the rulers
want them there or intentionally permit their existence? How about the
White Hand of Kriestal in Danigau, or the Mhor`s law holdings in Ghoere or
Gavin Tael`s holdings in Mhoried? Or the bandit guild in Berhagen? Or
Kalien`s holdings in Alamie and Medoere? There are many more examples.

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[Shade]

At 05:51 PM 2/18/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Lord Shade wrote:
>
>>I generally considered Bloodmark to be the most minor of blood abilities,
>>and for a while let PCs take the ability for free if they wanted it.
>>
>>I changed my mind when I realized that the +4 to reactions is definitely
>>valuable. The downside, of course, is that you have big problems trying to
>>disguise yourself (important for a thief or mage).
>>
>Mage: "fifth level spell from 2E Book of Magecraft: disguise bloodline:
>hids all magical and also physical (as appearance) aspects of a bloodline.
>
>And a simple shave will hide the "Very red beard", a cheap cloak or wig
>conceal the bright white hair...
>No problem for imaginative mages and thiefs.
>bye
>Michael Romes

That`s true in some cases.

I wouldn`t think that the Disguise bloodline spell would be a viable option
for the vast majority of characters with bloodmarks (you have to be a 9th+
level mage to cast it, and how many of those are there in BR? 20-30?)

For instance, Port of Call Exchange player in my game had six fingers on
his left hand as his bloodmark. That`s pretty easy to hide. On the other
hand, what if you had an ugly-looking purple blob on your face like Darien
Avan? How are you going to hide that without going around looking like a
leper or an evil necromancer? Are you going to keep your great helm on 24-7
(and as a result be almost completely blind and deaf)?

If you are a Khinasi woman, you might be able to get away with veils, but
otherwise...

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[Shade]

At 04:06 PM 2/18/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Arguing that Bloodmark is irrelevant is like arguing that Arthur pulling the
>sword from the stone was a meaningless act. Or that if a wife`s wedding
>ring is replaced by some other ring of equal value, she won`t demand the
>original back.
>
>The bloodmark is a visible manifestation of the mystical bond between a
>ruler and his realm and a ruler and his people. In a society that takes a
>birthright as a serious thing, that`s about all you need to demonstrate your
>legitimacy. William Moergan will be a perpetual problem to Jaison Raenech
>because he can show up, display his bloodmark and be hailed as the true and
>righful duke.

An excellent point. Bloodmark is definitely NOT useless from a roleplaying
perspective.

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[geeman]

At 11:16 PM 2/18/2003 +0100, irdeggman wrote:

>

Originally posted by Yair
>It retrospect, it seems obvious that a "prereq chain" implies the
>top-abilities are more powerful, but at first sight I didn`t see it, and
>a behind the screen section would have helped.

>
>Including such a section was actually discussed during the development but
>was dismissed as not really providing a good bang for the
>buck. [Snip] So why much up a process answering questiones that aren`t
>being asked?:)

It could preempt a little email banter.... I do agree, though, that a
"behind the screen" discussion would probably be too much to have in the
actual text. What about putting up some of that stuff on a web page
someplace as a sort of FAQ-like thing?

Gary

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[Yair]

I never intended to say bloodmark wasn't a good minor ability, or that it was useless in the game. Indeed, I consider it very important to the setting and I can imagine many plots where it is crucial to the adventure (perhaps more so than any other blood ability). However, it is relatively weak rule-wise which make it an ideal candidate to serve as a prereq feat. Bloodtrait, on the other hand, seems to me to be such a useful thing that almost anyone would want it (if his DM is reasonable), so it makes a poor prereq as part of the idea of prereqs is to increase the cost of things such as Invulnerability.
That is all I meant to say.
As for the "crippling": in certain circumstances, having a bloodmark is a giveaway. It thus prevents, or makes harder, certain things (as you all have been saying). It is possible to overcome these difficulties, of course, but it is crippling in the sense that it hinders your actions. Not debilitating, but crippling - yes, I believe. I have yet to play a Birthright campaign (just starting my first), but in some plots in the party's future (as I now see it) having a bloodmark will be a disadvantage more than an advantage.

As for the behind the curtain thing - you are right, it is overkill. An on-line FAQ or something like that would be preferable.

[ConjurerDragon]

Lord Shade wrote:

>>Better Vassals? ;-)
>>Taeghas and Brosengae were on Boeruines side during Michale Roeles
>>ascension to the throne - they can change again sides. And as both are
>>constantly on the brink of civil war Avan can be kept busy by this alone
>>(if he has only Magician lieutenants and not good diplomats to send...)
>>
>I think Avanil has better vassals. Let`s look at it this way:
>
>Avanil Boeruine
>------ --------
>Taeghas = Talinie
>PAI = Arien Borthein
>WIT > NIT
>Harald Khor = Arlen Innis
>Mieres/AV
>Brosengae/EM
>As written Talinie and Taeghas are both pretty reliable and comparable in
>size. Arlen Innis is higher level, but Harald Khorien has more
>sources/bloodline and therefore more RP, so I count them as pretty much
>equal. AB and PAI both kind of suck, as their bloodlines are small. WIT is
>an awesomely powerful domain on its own (huge holdings and income,
>4th-largest non-awnshegh bloodline in all of Anuire) and seems to be
>extremely reliable, and clearly superior to NIT. On top of this advantage,
>Avan has 2 unreliable vassals, Brosengae and Mieres, that at least for the
>time being provide him with tribute and therefore a
> bigger advantage over
>Boeruine.
>
When adding Talinie, you forget Torele Anviras who is loyal to Talinie
and could be counted to help when it would be needed.
Also the Hidden Temple of Cuiraceen in strong in Boeruine and I would
add them as allies to Boeruine if it comes to an Avan-Boeruine war.
Wasn´t somewhere mentinoed that Aeric Boeruine counts himself as member
of that temple while being the liege lord of the NIT?


>As for the Magician lieutenant issue, you are responding to a different
>thread and I`ll rebut your point there.
>
>>Mieres could be cut off at any time the seadrake wishes and the governor
>>does not seem overly trustworthy. Something interesting that was brought
>>up in COG II: The temples of Eloele in Mieres (a vassal of Avan) could
>>easily be used to discredit Avan as next emperor - after all the Emperor
>>is the protector of Anuire, of which Haelyn is patron! And AVAN allows
>>the temples of the goddess of thiefs prosper in his vassals lands? ;-)
>>
>You could make that point, but I doubt that who becomes the next Emperor of
>Anuire is going to be decided by who has a vassal with a temple of Eloele
>in his lands.
>Besides, in many places in the books, the designers imply that there are
>unwanted holdings in several realms, and the rulers have tried to get rid
>of them and can`t. Just because a holding exists in a particular place
>doesn`t mean a regent wants it there or is actively supporting it.
>In PBeMs, IMHO DMs never do a good job of portraying the real consequences
>of invading your own provinces and burning down holdings. I would think
>such a horrible action would result in complete hatred from the populace,
>if you burn down temples that they have been attending for years, or guilds
>that employed them and all their neighbors. If such an action was really as
>easy as PBeMs make it, no landed regent would ever have an unwanted holding
>in his realm for longer
>than 1 or 2 seasons. Why then do the published
>realms have unwanted holdings in almost every other domain?
>
Because the rules do not prevent it and occupation and
destruction/divestion is easier than several contests.

>Case in point - do you think that because the Brotherhood of Khet or the
>Society of the Serpent exist in a number of Khinasi kingdoms, the rulers
>want them there or intentionally permit their existence? How about the
>White Hand of Kriestal in Danigau, or the Mhor`s law holdings in Ghoere or
>Gavin Tael`s holdings in Mhoried? Or the bandit guild in Berhagen? Or
>Kalien`s holdings in Alamie and Medoere? There are many more examples.
>
I understand your point. Some Rjurik realms have to add to your list
guild holdings of the White Witch, about which they are not even
informed - while the holdings are in their own lands. That is impossible
in a PBEM unless the DM is super-human and devious...

However even the presence of such holdings could be used by Avan´s
opponents to show that he has done nothing/not enough to get rid of
them. Eloele is after all an enemy of Haelyn - even Rhobher Nicholair as
a firm supporter of Avan would have a hard time arguing to do nothing
against that temples. Not to act or not to succeed could be pointed out
as a failure - of a person who wants to rule a whole empire, and can´t
even bring law and order to his own vassals lands? ;-)
bye
Michael Romes

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