BRCS Chapter 1 - the Magician Class

[ConjurerDragon]

daniel mcsorley wrote:

>On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Ben L. Harrison wrote:
>
>>Just to add to the discussion. Why not let the magician keep healing but
>>start receiving the healing spells at a different level.
>>
>I feel like I should keeping harping on this. Magicians are wizards.
>Wizards do not get healing spells. Have not, do not, nor should we make
>them. There, got that out of my system.
>
Yes :-)
(however specialized wizards to be more exact)

Perhaps we should give specialized Wizards healing spells as well? ;-)
bye
Michael Romes

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[Raedwald]

I am really on the fence concerning the magician. Its seems the design group did not want to mess with the Bard. Therefore it had arcane healing, and since the Bard practiced lesser Magic, the Magician should have it.

I think the Bards magic should be considered derivations of Elven spell songs, which comprise lesser and true magic. This brings up the ball of wax that Elven arcane casters cast healing spells. This may not be so bad if they require 2 feats to do so (Elven Voice and Spellsong).

Anyway as to the magician, get rid of the healing and the summoning. Stick close to lesser magic, all spells of 0-2 level, Illusions and Divinations (seeming and Knowing) of levels 3-9. However if left at that, the magician is too weak to be a playable class. I like the idea of allowing the magician to sub-specialize in either Abjuration, Enchantment, or Transmutation, allowing access to 3rd level spells of 1 school.

Keep the hit dice d6. The d6 is tempting (Monte Cook's sorcerer variant has d6). Magicians are experts, dabblers in magic, sages if you will. Wizards d4 can also reflect the cost of handling True magic.

Skills are good, though I might add decipher script, pick pockets to allow additional flavor. I also miss the seer special ability (though I might require spell focus (divination) as a prerequisite).

Comments?

[Shade]

>Keep the hit dice d6. The d6 is tempting (Monte Cook`s sorcerer variant
has d6). Magicians are experts, dabblers in magic, sages if you will.
Wizards d4 can also reflect the cost of handling True magic.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I don`t think "because
Monte Cook did it" is a reason to justify ANYTHING. Monte`s ranger is
totally broken; just because he allowed it doesn`t mean we have to make the
same mistake. Just because he worked on the PHB and DMG doesn`t mean that
he has any concept of balance; I would guess he came up with a lot of
stuff, and had others try to balance it for him. (he even admits on his own
website that he went overboard with his ranger)

>
>Skills are good, though I might add decipher script, pick pockets to allow
additional flavor. I also miss the seer special ability (though I might
require spell focus (divination) as a prerequisite).
>
>Comments?

I like the idea of adding decipher script.

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[DanMcSorley]

On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Lord Shade wrote:
> >Skills are good, though I might add decipher script, pick pockets to allow
> additional flavor. I also miss the seer special ability (though I might
> require spell focus (divination) as a prerequisite).
>
> I like the idea of adding decipher script.

Pick pockets is the skill used for stage magic too, Magicians should have
that.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Shade]

At 02:34 PM 2/9/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Lord Shade wrote:
>> >Skills are good, though I might add decipher script, pick pockets to allow
>> additional flavor. I also miss the seer special ability (though I might
>> require spell focus (divination) as a prerequisite).
>>
>> I like the idea of adding decipher script.
>
>Pick pockets is the skill used for stage magic too, Magicians should have
>that.

I agree; I said that in my original post about magicians and didn`t think I
needed to repeat it. :)

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[geeman]

At 01:11 PM 2/9/2003 -0600, Lord Shade wrote:

> >Keep the hit dice d6. The d6 is tempting (Monte Cook`s sorcerer variant
>has d6). Magicians are experts, dabblers in magic, sages if you will.
>Wizards d4 can also reflect the cost of handling True magic.
>
>You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I don`t think "because
>Monte Cook did it" is a reason to justify ANYTHING.

He didn`t really say _that_.... I do, however, agree that just because
Monte says/does something that doesn`t mean we do, and I would, in fact,
extend the same thinking into just about any game system or designer`s
work, right up to and including many of the standard D&D 3e rules.

>Monte`s ranger is totally broken; just because he allowed it doesn`t mean
>we have to make the
>same mistake. Just because he worked on the PHB and DMG doesn`t mean that
>he has any concept of balance; I would guess he came up with a lot of
>stuff, and had others try to balance it for him. (he even admits on his own
>website that he went overboard with his ranger)

In this case, MC`s ideas on the ranger and sorcerer are heading in the
right direction. His ranger has faults, but it deals with many of the
problems with the version of the class presented in 3e and is worth a
look. Similarly, his modifications to the sorcerer are a big improvement
over the version in the PHB.

Gary

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[Mark_Aurel]

I like the idea of adding decipher script.

Hmmm. I think I read over at ENWorld that the latest issue of Dungeon seems to indicate that Decipher Script will be a standard skill for wizards in the revised edition. Wouldn't really surprise me; it's been a house rule of mine almost since 3e came out.

[Green Knight]

Mark_Aurel wrote:

I like the idea of adding decipher script.

>Hmmm. I think I read over at ENWorld that the latest issue of Dungeon
seems >to indicate that Decipher Script will be a standard skill for
wizards in >the revised edition. Wouldn`t really surprise me; it`s
been a house rule >of mine almost since 3e came out.

What about the Use Magic Device skill? In the low-magic world of
Cerilia, should this skill really belong to the non-magical rogue? I
would suggest removing it, Decipher Script, and the ability to remove
magical traps (how do they do that?). It is all well and good with the
bard (and magician), who has at least some magical potential, but not
the Rogue.

Cheers
Bjørn

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[DanMcSorley]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, [iso-8859-1] Bjørn Eian Sørgjerd wrote:
> What about the Use Magic Device skill? In the low-magic world of
> Cerilia, should this skill really belong to the non-magical rogue? I
> would suggest removing it, Decipher Script, and the ability to remove
> magical traps (how do they do that?). It is all well and good with the
> bard (and magician), who has at least some magical potential, but not
> the Rogue.

We`re not rewriting 3e. If we were, I`d launch into a rant about how
Bards have healing spells even though they`re arcane casters. But we`re
not.

Besides which, 2e thieves and bards had an equivalent ability, and it
wasn`t removed for BR.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[ryancaveney]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Bjørn Eian Sørgjerd wrote:

> What about the Use Magic Device skill? In the low-magic world of
> Cerilia, should this skill really belong to the non-magical rogue? I
> would suggest removing it, Decipher Script, and the ability to remove
> magical traps (how do they do that?).

I heartily concur. Heck, I did that even in my Greyhawk campaign.


Ryan Caveney

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