3e miscellaneous thoughts

[Birthright-L]

From: "lord_arioch" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>

> One would think that if a galleon went up against a galley that the galley
would
> win because of its maneuverability. That is not neccessarily so. I recall
reading
> about France building galleasses(?) to battle English caravels (or similar
ships). `
> The caravels battered the galleasses.

"galleasse" is a morepropername of what I temred theVenerial Galleon -
though contemporary terms are highly confusing.

> Perhaps the Galley and the Drakkar (because I am not familiar with the
drakkar)
> should be the only ships with rams.?
>

Nobody is familiar with the Drakkar - it is a fantasy ship. However, it
clearly has a ram.


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[Green Knight]

Stephen Starfox wrote:

> Nobody is familiar with the Drakkar - it is a fantasy ship. However, it clearly has a ram.

This is not at all true, drakkar is really the original name for "the longship". For a simple reference page, got to:

http://www.illustrert.no/kimsplace/Vikingskip.html


Cheers Bjørn


Cheers
Bjørn

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[Birthright-L]

From: "Green Knight" <bjorn.sorgjerd@C2I.NET>

> This is not at all true, drakkar is really the original name for "the
longship".
> [...]
> Cheers Bjørn

From your name, I gather you would know of the drakkar or "Drakskepp" of the
vikings. I`m from Sweden, and also familiar with them. But the Drakkar as
pictured on the war card is something different. It has a cabin/arftcastle,
among other things.

/Carl


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[Green Knight]

Right you are. Indeed, I`m curious as to wheter the Vos drakkar would be very seaworthy at all; the addition of forecastle and cabin would seriously compromise both hull flexibility and balance point.

But if the Vos got to Vosgaard by magic I suppose they wouldn`t need that would they? :-)

Cheers
Bjørn
>
> Fra: Stephen Starfox <stephen_starfox@YAHOO.SE>
> Dato: 2003/02/10 Mon PM 12:05:05 CET
> Til: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> Emne: Re: Sv: Re: 3e miscellaneous thoughts [36#1260]
>
> From: "Green Knight" <bjorn.sorgjerd@C2I.NET>
>
> > This is not at all true, drakkar is really the original name for "the
> longship".
> > [...]
> > Cheers Bjørn
>
> From your name, I gather you would know of the drakkar or "Drakskepp" of the
> vikings. I`m from Sweden, and also familiar with them. But the Drakkar as
> pictured on the war card is something different. It has a cabin/arftcastle,
> among other things.
>
> /Carl
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ___
> Gratis e-mail resten av livet på www.yahoo.se/mail
> Busenkelt!
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Cheers
Bjørn

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[Birthright-L]

Perhaps the explaination is thattheVos are poor sailors, and go down with
their inventions? :)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Green Knight" <bjorn.sorgjerd@C2I.NET>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: 3e miscellaneous thoughts [36#1260]


> Right you are. Indeed, I`m curious as to wheter the Vos drakkar would be
very seaworthy at all; the addition of forecastle and cabin would seriously
compromise both hull flexibility and balance point.
>
> But if the Vos got to Vosgaard by magic I suppose they wouldn`t need that
would they? :-)
>
> Cheers
> Bjørn
> >
> > Fra: Stephen Starfox <stephen_starfox@YAHOO.SE>
> > Dato: 2003/02/10 Mon PM 12:05:05 CET
> > Til: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> > Emne: Re: Sv: Re: 3e miscellaneous thoughts [36#1260]
> >
> > From: "Green Knight" <bjorn.sorgjerd@C2I.NET>
> >
> > > This is not at all true, drakkar is really the original name for "the
> > longship".
> > > [...]
> > > Cheers Bjørn
> >
> > From your name, I gather you would know of the drakkar or "Drakskepp" of
the
> > vikings. I`m from Sweden, and also familiar with them. But the Drakkar
as
> > pictured on the war card is something different. It has a
cabin/arftcastle,
> > among other things.
> >
> > /Carl
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ ___
> > Gratis e-mail resten av livet på www.yahoo.se/mail
> > Busenkelt!
> >
> >
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> >
>
> Cheers
> Bjørn
>
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>
>
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[lord_arioch]

I have a great fondness for sea-going adventures which is the reason I revived this threat. Although I found the old BR and now D20 BR naval rules usable I think there are some points that need clarification and debate.

1) The D20 BR rules show a number of ships with rams, the only ship that should have a ram is the Serpent galleys. As I mentioned before in this thread, most Cerilian ships are sail powered, you cannot use a ram. Should a drakkar have a ram? Perhaps that is an option that a regent can have. If a ram is added this will effect the cost and seaworthiness of the ship. Ships that have had rams in history (triremes, biremes) had they hulls built specifically to support a ram. If you put a ram on a longship the force of the collision may cause the longship to break apart. Ideas?

2) Maneuver class was left out of the D20 BR (or renamed). This could also be altered to better reflect ships abilities. Galleons were notoriously slow and clumsy and should not be able to outmaneuver a longship. Can it outrun a longship? With a good wind aft, absolutely. tacking into the wind, doubtful.

3) cargo and troops. This could effect a ships maeuverability. A heavily laden ship is not as maneuverable as a lightly laden ship.

4) Perhaps hits can be created between rigging & sails and the hull. R&S damage would reduce a ships maneuverability while hull damage can effect its seaworthiness, speed and may ultimately lead to its sinking. :)

5) Options of ships. What if you equipped a galleon with a lanteen sail as opposed to a square sail? More maneuverable but not as fast with a tail wind?
What if you streamlined your galleon hull (lower its hull rating) and increase its sail? A faster ship with a weaker hull?


These are some areas that can use some fine-tuning. What says the sea dogs and landlubbers? :)

[ConjurerDragon]

lord_arioch wrote:

>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1260
>
> lord_arioch wrote:
> I have a great fondness for sea-going adventures which is the reason I revived this threat. Although I found the old BR and now D20 BR naval rules usable I think there are some points that need clarification and debate.
>
>1) The D20 BR rules show a number of ships with rams, the only ship that should have a ram is the Serpent galleys. As I mentioned before in this thread, most Cerilian ships are sail powered, you cannot use a ram. Should a drakkar have a ram? Perhaps that is an option that a regent can have. If a ram is added this will effect the cost and seaworthiness of the ship. Ships that have had rams in history (triremes, biremes) had they hulls built specifically to support a ram. If you put a ram on a longship the force of the collision may cause the longship to break apart. Ideas?
>
Yes. Leave the rams away. Galleeren (Galleys) are the only ships that
ought to have rams and they as the old vessels in the mediterranean sea
were poorly seaworthy and not to be used e.g. on the North Sea or
Atlantic Ocean/Sea of Storms. There ships like the coq, or Roundship
without rams prevail. And the anuirean galleon I would rather like to
see having a drawbridge to board an enemy, like the roman ships in the
wars against karthago.
bye
Michael Romes

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