Alternate Hit Point System

[Arlen Blaede]

I have to concur with a previous posting. The most realistic combat system I've seen for fantasy fighting has been put together by the people who made Runequest. You know, the same people who actually like to put on real armor and beat each other silly with real weapons (SCA for all those who didn't know).

[Perhelion]

I'll belatedly pop into the argument just to say that I think that though the DnD system isn't perfect, it allows quick play and heroic feats... After all, if Mr. Muscle can overcome an army all by himself, then its because he's a legend... and will attract some tougher opposition soon. After all we couldn't use the high-HD monsters if the heroes faced too many problems with the easy ones! Besides even a great warrior might have problems if the monsters became a bit intelligent (i.e. use a net, stay on the o0ther side of the river with poisonned arrows etc...)

[Chaos Lord Arioch]

Heroic feats eh. what level would you say Bilbo BAGGINS was when he faced the dragon? He survived the encounter through intelligence and cunning not because he could withstand the effects of a dragon's breath.
A hero should be given the HP of a 100 commoners because he's a hero? A 1st level sorcerer can cause major problems for a 10th level fighter (Most evident in Birthright). It all depends on how intelligent the character is played that makes him a hero.
Think of Braveheart. Wallace was legendary, does that mean he was 7 feet tall and could shoot fireballs out of his arse?
(I'm not sure how you spell that one- arse?)
No, he was just intelligent (of course I'm only refering to the movie to make a point).
And finally when he was disembowelled, was he hacked at over and over to bring his HP down before he died?
It should be the skills and talents of the character that increases not his HP.
One arrow killed Achilles (at least I think it was an arrow) so one arrow should kill a 25th level fighter. It I was that 25th level fighter I would hope that I had excellent armour and magic to protect me and my ankle;)
All challenges can be overcome. Not through brute force but through intelligence and strategy.

[Lawgiver]

Hail the wisdom of the great Chaos Lord Arioch!!! At last another man of great reason!

By the way I'd give Bilbo a level 3 in the Hobbit, maybe up to 6 when he meets Frodo at Rivendale in LOTR.

I'd make William Wallace about a level 10 or 11 fighter (at least the level 9 to get the followers by the 2e rules... though the level 9 requirement is easily debatable). And I beleive its fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightening from his arse...but I could be wrong (its happened at least 1 or 2 times before ;))

[Chaos Lord Arioch]

drat, I messed up the quote.
I knew he had something coming from his arse. I wonder if there is a blood ability like that?

Kidding, of course!

[Mark_Aurel]

Have you looked at the original justification for hit points? 1e DMG, by Gary Gygax, page 82:

"It is quite unreasonable to assume that as a character gains levels of ability in his or her class that a corresponding gain in actual ability to withstand physical damage takes place. It is preposterous to state such an assumption, for if we are to assume that a man is killed by a sword thrust that does 4 hit points of damage, we must similarly assume that a hero could, on average, withstand five such thrusts before being slain! Why then the increase in hit points? Because these reflect both the actual physical ability of the character to withstand damage - as indicated by constitution bonuses - and a commensurate increase in such areas as skill in combat and similar life-or-death situations, the "sixth sense" which warns the individual of some otherwise unforeseen events, sheer luck, and the fantastic provisions of magical protections and/or divine protection. Therefore, constitution affects both actual ability to withstand physical punishment hit points, and the immeasurable areas which involve the sixth sense and luck (fitness).

Hearkening back to the example of Rasputin..."

The point of this entire discussion is to point out that hit points isn't actually all toughness - it is composed of many things. Basically, when a character takes damage, you might say that his "luck" got reduced rather than saying he took a stab in the thigh, as an example. Hit points is a simplification to make things go faster overall - as the text hints, you can actually interpret damage in more ways than just being hacked at.

[Rcook12a]

Lawgiver, Hit Points are part of D&D if you don't like them play a different game like RuneQuest as someone suggested.
I agree that they are bit rediculous at high levels but there are many other game systems that are very good that use different systems, Shadowrun and L5R come to mind. Just convert those systems to the Birthright world and post your conversion here for all to see.
Regards

[Lord Eldred]

Orginally posted by Mark_Aurel

Have you looked at the original justification for hit points? 1e DMG, by Gary Gygax, page 82:

"It is quite unreasonable to assume that as a character gains levels of ability in his or her class that a corresponding gain in actual ability to withstand physical damage takes place. It is preposterous to state such an assumption, for if we are to assume that a man is killed by a sword thrust that does 4 hit points of damage, we must similarly assume that a hero could, on average, withstand five such thrusts before being slain! Why then the increase in hit points? Because these reflect both the actual physical ability of the character to withstand damage - as indicated by constitution bonuses - and a commensurate increase in such areas as skill in combat and similar life-or-death situations, the "sixth sense" which warns the individual of some otherwise unforeseen events, sheer luck, and the fantastic provisions of magical protections and/or divine protection. Therefore, constitution affects both actual ability to withstand physical punishment hit points, and the immeasurable areas which involve the sixth sense and luck (fitness).

Hearkening back to the example of Rasputin..."

The point of this entire discussion is to point out that hit points isn't actually all toughness - it is composed of many things. Basically, when a character takes damage, you might say that his "luck" got reduced rather than saying he took a stab in the thigh, as an example. Hit points is a simplification to make things go faster overall - as the text hints, you can actually interpret damage in more ways than just being hacked at.

Finally someone who knows what they are talking about!

[blitzmacher]

On the first page of this thread I posted the system my group uses for melee. What I didn't put with it was the fact that when you go up in level you still go up in hit points like normal, you just have to divide them up again. This system really works well for called shots. After all, it took david only one well placed shot to take out goliath, not a full blown slug fest.

[Lord Eldred]

The question remains does it slow down the game?