Problems with Justina and Banshegh

[Lord Grave]

The Blood Enemies and Heavens of the Great Bay say that Justina an Elf.
They also say that Banshegh is released while Justina sleeps. However,
it is common knowledge that Birthright Elves don`t sleep.

Please correct me if I made a mistake here, and help me understand this
mysterious concept.

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[Mark_Aurel]

Sounds like a pretty typical thing - the Blood Enemies book is pretty inconsistent with the BR vision on a number of points, and I guess that this is just another goof, albeit a pretty serious one, given that this is part of the core of the Banshegh's character. I'd say the simplest solution is to retcon things a bit, and make Justina a half-elf instead. As far as I know, half-elves require sleep, and it is also plausible that many would refer to her as an "elf," despite being only half such, given how half-elves are often treated. Alternately, if you don't like retconning things like that (it's just a minor detail, IMO), I'd say that Justina sleeps because of a unique aspect of her awnshegh status - it's a special curse, or ability, that her bloodline has bestowed on her.

One minor note here is that no D&D elves sleep anymore - that, along with low-light vision, seems to be a pretty clear legacy of BR in 3e.

I don't think there's more to it to understand, than hasty and inconsistent work.

[Shade]

It`s an example of bad design, where the designers don`t follow their own
rules. Very common in D&D.

At 10:04 PM 2/4/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>The Blood Enemies and Heavens of the Great Bay say that Justina an Elf.
>They also say that Banshegh is released while Justina sleeps. However,
>it is common knowledge that Birthright Elves don`t sleep.
>
>Please correct me if I made a mistake here, and help me understand this
>mysterious concept.
>
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[Lord Grave]

So how do people deal with it? Make her Half-Elf? Or say that Banshegh
goes out at night regardless of wether Justina is sleeping or not?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion
> [mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Lord Shade
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:54 PM
> To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> Subject: Re: Problems with Justina and Banshegh
>
>
> It`s an example of bad design, where the designers don`t
> follow their own rules. Very common in D&D.
>
> At 10:04 PM 2/4/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> >The Blood Enemies and Heavens of the Great Bay say that
> Justina an Elf.
> >They also say that Banshegh is released while Justina
> sleeps. However,
> >it is common knowledge that Birthright Elves don`t sleep.
> >
> >Please correct me if I made a mistake here, and help me
> understand this
> >mysterious concept.
> >
> >************************************************* ************
> **********
> >*****
> >The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
> >Birthright-l Archives:
> http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-> l.html
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> unsubscribe, send email to
> LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> >with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
> >
>
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[Birthright-L]

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Mark_Aurel wrote:
> One minor note here is that no D&D elves sleep anymore - that, along
> with low-light vision, seems to be a pretty clear legacy of BR in 3e.

Didn`t Tolkiens elves not sleep? I don`t know that it`s so much that 3e
copied BR, more that both copied the same source, better than 2e anyway.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Mark_Aurel]

Mmmm, not quite sure on the Tolkien elves, though it sounds about right. I remember that the 2e "book of munchkinesse --- pardon, elves" had some notes around this as well - something about a "reverie" and "communion" and some other exalted states of mind for the pointyears. Not sure whether elves slept back then or not, either - it could be that they never really slept at all, just pretended to in previous editions of the game.

[geeman]

At 10:04 PM 2/4/2003 +0100, Milos Rasic wrote:

>The Blood Enemies and Heavens of the Great Bay say that Justina an Elf.
>They also say that Banshegh is released while Justina sleeps. However,
>it is common knowledge that Birthright Elves don`t sleep.
>
>Please correct me if I made a mistake here, and help me understand this
>mysterious concept.

Heh. Yeah, well, there`s a few of ways to go here, I think.

1. Make her a half-elf.

2. She still doesn`t "sleep" per se. In fact, if she weren`t an elf, the
waking activity of the Banshegh would soon drive the "good" half of Justina
insane. Instead, Justina enters into a nightly period of rest and
reflection, just like other elves, which appears to her to be exactly the
same as any other such period, but during that period the Banshegh aspect
of her character takes over and she roams the night.

3. Justina really isn`t the Banshegh, or more to the point, her body houses
the awnshegh`s spiritual form, but at night--while Justina rests--the
Banshegh leaves Justina`s body (a sort of astral or ethereal projection
that gives her physicality on two planes) and haunts the countryside. This
one is my favorite, actually, since it does some stuff to explain the
physical appearance of the Banshegh and associates her powers with that of
a ghost which also makes some sense.

Gary

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[Shade]

Yep. BR is a more accurate representation of Tolkien than "core" 2nd edition.

In too many settings, like FR, elves are really no different from humans
other than their pointy ears.

At 05:18 PM 2/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Mark_Aurel wrote:
>> One minor note here is that no D&D elves sleep anymore - that, along
>> with low-light vision, seems to be a pretty clear legacy of BR in 3e.
>
>Didn`t Tolkiens elves not sleep? I don`t know that it`s so much that 3e
>copied BR, more that both copied the same source, better than 2e anyway.
>--
>Communication is possible only between equals.
>Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu
>
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>The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
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>

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