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Thread: Ruler levels
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01-30-2003, 03:52 AM #1
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In the original ruleset, character ruleset didn`t really affect one`s
talent as a regent. It was more domain power, and occasionally a couple
of proficiencies were used, but most of those could be picked up within a
couple of levels.
3e uses the skill point system, so if you tie any portion of the domain
system to a skill (administration or strategy), high level characters will
be significantly better. Is that good? Or should a 3e version of domain
rules allow 1st level kings to be just as effective as 20th level kings?
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01-30-2003, 04:04 AM #2Originally posted by Birthright-L
3e uses the skill point system, so if you tie any portion of the domain
system to a skill (administration or strategy), high level characters will
be significantly better. Is that good? Or should a 3e version of domain
rules allow 1st level kings to be just as effective as 20th level kings?
As a related question let me ask you this. If certain skills/feats were required to be a more effective ruler (e.g. administration and strategy) would you spend the points to gain levels in these skills or would you continue to focus on combat, magic, or stealth related skills and feats?
In other words, which would be more important, a powerful, harder to kill character, or a character that could rule his realm more effectivly?Let me claim your Birthright!!
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01-30-2003, 04:33 AM #3
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On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 14:41, daniel mcsorley wrote:
In the original ruleset, character ruleset didn`t really affect one`s
talent as a regent. It was more domain power, and occasionally a couple
of proficiencies were used, but most of those could be picked up within a
couple of levels.
3e uses the skill point system, so if you tie any portion of the domain
system to a skill (administration or strategy), high level characters will
be significantly better. Is that good? Or should a 3e version of domain
rules allow 1st level kings to be just as effective as 20th level kings?
--
1st level kings should be as effective (if not more effective) than 20th
level kings.
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01-30-2003, 04:33 AM #4
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On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 14:41, daniel mcsorley wrote:
In the original ruleset, character ruleset didn`t really affect one`s
talent as a regent. It was more domain power, and occasionally a couple
of proficiencies were used, but most of those could be picked up within a
couple of levels.
3e uses the skill point system, so if you tie any portion of the domain
system to a skill (administration or strategy), high level characters will
be significantly better. Is that good? Or should a 3e version of domain
rules allow 1st level kings to be just as effective as 20th level kings?
--
1st level kings should be as effective (if not more effective) than 20th
level kings.
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01-30-2003, 04:44 AM #5Originally posted by Peter Lubke
1st level kings should be as effective (if not more effective) than 20th
level kings.
Let me claim your Birthright!!
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01-30-2003, 05:47 AM #6
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Prestige Class: Monarch??? Sounds good to me. The more a person learns
about being a Monarch, the better they would be at it. There are already
Warlord and such prestige classes, I think this one would be a good one.
Others could be: Guilder, High Priest, Realm Mage, etc.
I like Prestige Classes because they give such variety, and you can just
make them up!
----Original Message Follows----
From: Peter Lubke <peterlubke@OPTUSNET.COM.AU>
1st level kings should be as effective (if not more effective) than 20th
level kings.
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01-30-2003, 05:47 AM #7
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On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Raesene Andu wrote:
> Originally posted by Peter Lubke
> > 1st level kings should be as effective (if not more effective) than
> > 20th level kings.
>
> Interesting opinion. Care to explains your reason as to why?
Because D&D levels are directly tied to adventuring prowess, and
adventuring has nothing to do with leadership/rulership ability. There`s
been some effort in 3e to make classes (expert, commoner, aristocrat)
which gain levels but have nothing to do with adventuring, but it`s still
a rather bad tack-on to the D&D level system (what`s a 20th level commoner
exactly? And how does he gain all that experience without adventuring,
and if he did adventure, wouldn`t he be picking up some adventurer class
levels?).
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Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu
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01-30-2003, 06:11 AM #8Originally posted by Birthright-L
Because D&D levels are directly tied to adventuring prowess, and
adventuring has nothing to do with leadership/rulership ability. There`s
been some effort in 3e to make classes (expert, commoner, aristocrat)
which gain levels but have nothing to do with adventuring, but it`s still
a rather bad tack-on to the D&D level system (what`s a 20th level commoner
exactly? And how does he gain all that experience without adventuring,
and if he did adventure, wouldn`t he be picking up some adventurer class
levels?).
Let me claim your Birthright!!
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01-30-2003, 07:48 AM #9
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On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Raesene Andu wrote:
> As a related question let me ask you this. If certain skills/feats
> were required to be a more effective ruler (e.g. administration and
> strategy) would you spend the points to gain levels in these skills or
> would you continue to focus on combat, magic, or stealth related
> skills and feats?
>
> In other words, which would be more important, a powerful, harder to
> kill character, or a character that could rule his realm more
> effectivly?
Well, the point of BR was to play an adventuring king, so you`d want to be
able to have some of both (probably wouldn`t be optimal at either, which
is fine). The "adventuring->XP->levelling->more skillful" model doesn`t
really work for a non-adventuring king, though, does it? And he should
probably be a more skillful king than the adventuring king, since it`s his
only focus. But he never gets XP, so he`ll never improve his skills, and
the adventuring king will blow by him. Adding XP rewards for kingly
duties is kind of a hack and doesn`t exactly solve the problem either.
What`s really needed, rather than an `expert` class which mysteriously
gains XP and pours all his growth into skill points, is a more direct way
to add skills, probably by spending time practicing them.
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Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu
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01-30-2003, 07:48 AM #10
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On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 15:44, Raesene Andu wrote:
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Raesene Andu wrote:
Originally posted by Peter Lubke
1st level kings should be as effective (if not more effective) than 20th
level kings.
Character class should be relatively unimportant to rulership ability.
Character class level is therefore even less so. De-coupling character
class from domain activity provides a far more flexible system - and one
which is easier to manage as well. To some extent this is seen in BR by
"any regent can collect RP/DP from provinces" - character class is
unimportant.
A character that spends much of his time gaining level in his character
class is not spending it on his/her domain. Therefore the higher the
character class level of regent, the less experienced and effective they
will be as regent. While D&Ds XP systems do allow a character to reach a
level and then just stay there -- such is not likely in actuality, you
must continually use your skills even to maintain them at their peak.
And some skills will deteriorate as a character ages no matter how hard
they try to hold on to them.
BR (2e) chained character class to a predisposition to rule certain
kinds of domains. But they did it extremely poorly. Warriors were given
a very poor deal even though the expectation was that warriors would
rule most realms - in fact they hold the majority of the realms in
Anuire despite the fact that they are less well suited to do so by 2e BR
rules than other classes.
The introduction of a regent class with levels of increasing ability (a
common 3e theme) therein detracts from core BR -- or would have to be an
alternative to bloodlines and RP. Bloodline and RP are already a
mechanism for dealing with regents and their effectiveness. It`s not
perfect and could be improved - but no need to throw the baby out with
the bathwater just yet. (However such a scheme could be an alternative
to bloodline and RP)
Even in non-BR D&D, character class level should not equate with rank
within an organization. A high level character may be well-respected,
and even given honorary positions within the organization but the more
they spend adventuring, the less political clout they`ll have. This is a
common theme in many fantasy novels. The notion that a 9th level priest
is the high priest should be dismissed -- more likely that the high
priest will be 3rd or 4th level, not totally inexperienced but having
been more active in politics and administration. They will have
authority over far more powerful (by character level) priests.
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