Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37

Thread: Gunpowder

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    21
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    One last thing: has anyone tried out BR with gunpowder available? That is to say, primitive weapons on the order of Warhammer (arquebus', blunderbuss' and the like.) Better yet, has anyone done any work toward creating a battle card formation utilizing arquebus or muskets?

  2. #2
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    near Frankfurt/ Germany
    Posts
    801
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    No! IMO gunpowder kills much of fantasy. Naturally FR must have such a thing (it has everything), but in BR it shouldn't be allowed. Gunpowder has a great part of unballancing the game...

    By the way: Imagine: You kill the Gorgon with a pump-gun...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    883
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Arsulon wrote:

    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1163
    >Arsulon wrote:
    > One last thing: has anyone tried out BR with gunpowder available? That is to say, primitive weapons on the order of Warhammer (arquebus`, blunderbuss` and the like.) Better yet, has anyone done any work toward creating a battle card formation utilizing arquebus or muskets?
    >
    There has been gunpowder in Cerilia for Birthright mentioned in one
    Dragon Magazine - I don´t remember the number but it was on the CD-ROM
    that included magazine 1 to 250. There old ships of Anuire and the
    invention of "dragons" = crude cannons were described.
    bye
    Michael Romes

    ************************************************** **************************
    The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
    Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
    To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
    with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    BR mailing list
    Posts
    1,562
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Arsulon wrote:
    > One last thing: has anyone tried out BR with gunpowder available?
    > That is to say, primitive weapons on the order of Warhammer
    > (arquebus`, blunderbuss` and the like.) Better yet, has anyone done
    > any work toward creating a battle card formation utilizing arquebus or
    > muskets?

    Yes, harquebuses (harquebi?) and early mortar-type cannons.

    Harquebuses won`t be much more effective than regular archers, because
    they`re slower and have less effective range. You have to get up to
    almost matchlock level tech plus countermarching tactics for them to
    overtake bows and crossbows, IMO.

    Cannon act like the `artillery` card in battle, but I think the speed
    should increase when they`re used for long-term sieges, maybe to an order
    of weeks instead of months. They`d have to be monstrously expensive, and
    slow in overland travel.

    By the time I got around to developing this kind of thing I`d given up on
    warcards, so I didn`t make any up. Sorry.
    --
    Communication is possible only between equals.
    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

    ************************************************** **************************
    The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
    Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
    To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
    with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    BR mailing list
    Posts
    1,562
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Actually, I think BR can have a bit of a gunpowder-like substance... I
    called it "death powder" or something of the sort... I also decided that
    Real World gunpowder, and FR smokepowder would have... bad effects if used
    on Aebrynnis... As in, explode quite violently, at the least taking off a
    limb or two...

    __________________________________________________ _______________
    STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*.
    http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmai...324&DI=7474&SU=
    http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&...topmorespam_3mf

    ************************************************** **************************
    The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
    Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
    To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
    with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    883
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    And I finally found the article:
    It´s in Dragon Magazine 232
    "Weapons of the Waves" by Rich Baker
    about old cerilian ships, new naval weapons (dragon, bombard) and the
    invention of gunpowder... :-)
    bye
    Michael Romes
    ***********
    William Bolitho wrote:

    > Actually, I think BR can have a bit of a gunpowder-like substance... I
    > called it "death powder" or something of the sort... I also decided that
    > Real World gunpowder, and FR smokepowder would have... bad effects if
    > used
    > on Aebrynnis... As in, explode quite violently, at the least taking off a
    > limb or two...
    >
    > __________________________________________________ _______________
    > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*.
    > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmai...324&DI=7474&SU=
    >
    > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&...topmorespam_3mf
    >
    >
    > ************************************************** **************************
    >
    > The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
    > Birthright-l Archives:
    > http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
    > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
    > with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
    >

    ************************************************** **************************
    The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
    Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
    To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
    with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    21
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Ariadne:
    I understand where you're coming from with your suggestion that gunpwder weapons runs counter to the spirit of heroic fantasy; typically, the counter-arguement is to point out it's no less heroic to have a hole blown in your chest than it is to have a yard of iron rammed through your stomach. Personally, I think it depends on the tone of the fantasy campaign. For me, it seems odd to have a renaissance culture with no gunpowder: not bizarre, unforgivable or umpossible, just a little odd.
    As for game balance, Daniel has rightly pointed out that gunpowder weapons (especially in the high renaissance) would be hideously expensive and innacurate. The key to balance, then, would be to use gunpowder in its proper renaissance role: as fuel for siege weapons and as the playthings for nobles.
    Daniel:
    Excellent points. Gunpowder is not the panacea for military conflict in the renaissance. Primitive longarms like the arquebus are expensive, slow and innacurate as hell; in fact, at the nadir of Washington's fortunes in the American War of Independence, Thomas Jefferson suggested his troops start using longbows as they were cheaper, more accurate and (in trained hands) had a higher rate of fire. I like your idea about "exoticizing" gunpowder to fit a fantasy world: why not say its some kind of alchemical substance that's magical and/or highly volatile and unreliable?
    Michael:
    Thanks very, very much for directing me towards the specific Dragon issue with the guns in it. I get the impression that gunpowder in Cerilia is an older, nigh-forgotten product of the Adurian empires. That certainly paralells our history: the Chinese invented the stuff but only half-heartedly applied it in warfare, practically ignoring it sometimes (depending on the regime.)

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    BR mailing list
    Posts
    1,562
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Hmm... Actually, if I remember correctly... In FR, smokepowder is not
    something many people want used... Mostly the mages... Since smokepowder is
    a component in a few spells, and item creations... Which is why, when
    someone uses smokepowder, he sort of gets a bad look from the group
    wizard...

    Perhaps in BR, something of the same could be true? Perhaps smokepowder is a
    key ingrediant in creating certain Realm Spell effects? Or Battle Spell
    effects (i.e. a battle spell version of Fireball)?

    Anyway, just adding my comments... Ignore them if you wish...

    __________________________________________________ _______________
    Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*.
    http://join.msn.com/?page=features/feature...324&DI=7474&SU=
    http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&...s_addphotos_3mf

    ************************************************** **************************
    The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
    Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
    To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
    with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  9. #9
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    near Frankfurt/ Germany
    Posts
    801
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by Arsulon

    Ariadne:
    I understand where you're coming from with your suggestion that gunpwder weapons runs counter to the spirit of heroic fantasy; typically, the counter-arguement is to point out it's no less heroic to have a hole blown in your chest than it is to have a yard of iron rammed through your stomach. [...]
    IMO it is actually less heroic to use guns and not piercing, slashing or bludgeoning weapons. See, with a gun you can hit somebody on a great distance (greater than a bow) and cause huge damage. It might be a weapon for mages (they have even more power then), but to fight somebody face to face is the only challenge for a fighter...


    Off topic: Merry Christmas to all BR-forum users!!!
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    21
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Ariadne:
    Well, you're certainly correct about the range advantage afforded by more advanced firearms: battle from the 18th century onward forces a redefinition of heroism (i.e. holding an advancing line while under fire.) However, firearms in the Renaissance up until around the mid-17th century are inferior in range to longbows and some crossbows. Heroism is still very much the province of cold steel during this era: duels and dashing cavalry charges will be won swords for centuries to come. However, isn't the all-or-nothing thrill of a pistol duel heroic in its own way?
    P.S. This is just my two cents by the way. I'm not actually trying to "convert" you and very much doubt I'll use a lot of gunpowder in my BR campaign anyway.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.