altering terrain in Birthright

[Lord Grave]

One of my players want to drain a swamp, and I have no idea how to
handle it. Any suggestions?

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[morgramen]

I'd use build actions (lots of them!) for the initial bit. Drainage trenches, paddlewheels, etc.) and then I'd probably alter the DC to be rather difficult as well. Draining a swamp could be done I'd say, but it'd take a long long time I'd expect (and be expensive!) (Unless you use magic as well to compliment the building.)

Also, the water needs to go somewhere. And once the region is drained, what's left over? Silt, mud, muskeg perhaps. Not solid earth, ready for cultivation I'd wager.

All in all, I'd expect such an undertaking to take a good many years of game time before it's actually suitable for use as something else.

[Birthright-L]

I have let players increase the maximum province levels through building
dams, ditches, irrigation, terraces or whatnot. Each increae past the normal
maximum is a building project, with a cost of 5d6 GB. This project must be
finised before the province level is raised.

This does not change the basic terrain type; it merely makes it more
suitable for habitation. So a swamp is still a swamp, but the areable areas
of the swamp become larger.

/Carl


----- Original Message -----
From: "Milos Rasic" <mrasic@TEHNICOM.NET>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 12:02 AM
Subject: altering terrain in Birthright


> One of my players want to drain a swamp, and I have no idea how to
> handle it. Any suggestions?
>
>
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[ConjurerDragon]

Milos Rasic wrote:

>One of my players want to drain a swamp, and I have no idea how to
>handle it. Any suggestions?
>
Windmills? :-)
The Netherlands with their drainage system gaining land from where lakes
or marshes where could be a fine example for this.
bye
Michael

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[Lord Grave]

> >One of my players want to drain a swamp, and I have no idea how to
> >handle it. Any suggestions?
> >
> Windmills? :-)
> The Netherlands with their drainage system gaining land from
> where lakes or marshes where could be a fine example for
> this. bye Michael
>

Yes, I know about that, but when did this start in Netherlands?

BTW, if there are any Dutch here, the nature is going to strike back
sooner or later. Beware! :-)

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[Birthright-L]

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Milos Rasic wrote:
> > The Netherlands with their drainage system gaining land from
> > where lakes or marshes where could be a fine example for
> > this. bye Michael
>
> Yes, I know about that, but when did this start in Netherlands?

I have a map in a textbook where much of the present landmass of the
Netherlands is a combination of little islands and lots of water. It`s
dated 1606, so after that :)

Did the Dutch really drain all that land, or was it more, dike it off and
let it evaporate?
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "daniel mcsorley" <mcsorley@CIS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 7:04 PM

> Did the Dutch really drain all that land, or was it more, dike it off and
> let it evaporate?

A lot of those famous windmills pumped water more or less continuously.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Milos Rasic" <mrasic@TEHNICOM.NET>
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 5:02 PM

> One of my players want to drain a swamp, and I have no idea how to
> handle it. Any suggestions?

As for draining marshlands in general, you are basically seperating the
water from the soil. So some places you convert to ponds, lakes, or river
channels, with sufficient depth to hold a good amount of water. The water
that drains out leaves ever so much more land exposed. Add the land dug out
to make the ponds, &c to the exposed land, and you have a still greater
difference between the water table and surface land. That`s how you do
something like that inland. Doing this on the coast involves building a
dike, or a system of dikes and continuously pumping water dug from wells on
the land side of the dike over to the water side. If you have the capacity
for considerable earth moving, that will help you fill in a marsh with land
of higher elevation.

In either case, maintaining the land requires constant effort and labor.
The initial construction can be based on the Fortess Builder`s Guide.
Maintenance is best subsumed into the maintenance costs of a high value
province.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel]

Somebody could probably make a sourcebook detailing all the different things that could be done with a Build action.

Prestige Buildings (like Wonders from the Civilization games), bridges, castles, homes, roads, ships, boats, dungeons, tombs, catacombs, towers, dikes, landfills, siege weaponry, wagons, walls, shrines, cathedrals, huts, tree houses, citadels, etc. There could be a verbose description on each action; including its purpose, game effects, costs, maintenance, process, uses, etc.

It wouldn't take much work to make it better than the stronghold builder's guidebook, plus it would have a fairly broad scope (enough to warrant a separate book?) and would be Birthright specific (particularly in the area of balance).


The same could be said of Espionage, Diplomacy, Trade, and a few other domain actions. (They would have different foci, of course) Of course, I can always come up with ideas, I just need to work on them for longer. Now I'm starting to talk to myself...

[Peter Lubke]

On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 10:02, Milos Rasic wrote:
> One of my players want to drain a swamp, and I have no idea how to
> handle it. Any suggestions?

A normal small swamp?

Or a swamp province?

Draining the area for the Brisbane domestic airport took 8 years and
modern machinery and earth moving equipment (I can`t remember the exact
tonnage of sand they moved but it was lots). They had to raise it up as
well.


I`d argue that draining a swamp province is beyond the capabilities of
Cerilian technology. Especially if it`s near a large river or ocean.

Building the twin towers in NY was a major breakthrough in US
engineering. Initially the report said that digging the foundations for
such a large building couldn`t be done due to water seepage (you`d have
to drain the Hudson river to dig it normally apparently).

(They built the foundations underwater -- well under a water slurry
actually -- then pumped the water out when they were done)

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[geeman]

At 12:02 AM 12/13/2002 +0100, Milos Rasic wrote:

>One of my players want to drain a swamp, and I have no idea how to handle
>it. Any suggestions?

For simplicity`s sake you could use some variation of the Monument action
to determine the cost of construction. As for the results of the
construction I`d just increase the potential population level of the
province a bit. In the past I`ve fiddled around with a Utility holding
that`s only purpose was to raise the potential population level of a
province, but the circular math was a bit hard to compute for practicality
in a P&P game. I still have a few types of construction that can raise a
province`s population level +1 to +3. The type of construction you`re
talking about here might fit better into that kind of system. As a
guideline I`d suggest 5GB for the first +1, 10GB more to get to +2 and
another 15GB to get a +3.

Gary

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