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  1. #1
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Hi

    Yes, I do. I always hated the entire rule province action as it was presented. Other players may like it and try to explain how it works, but I`m not at all convinced...

    Basically a province "grows" a number of GBs each turn eaqual to its province level (a level 4 province grows by 4 Gbs). There are some modifiers to this, lwith reduced growth during winter for example. In addtion certain events, war etc. can affect the growth, most often in a negative manner.

    To reach next level, a province must grow a number of Gbs equal to the new level squared times a growth multiplier.

    The multiplier is a matter of prefrence as to how fast you want provinces to go up in level. I currently use 5 as the base number for the sunny South Coast and 10 for frozen Thaele. I initially used a multiplier twice this nuber, but while a bit more in line with actual population growth figures, it wasn`t very playable.

    To use the province (4) above, it would need to grow 5x5x5=125Gbs before reaching level 5. The same province in Thaele would need 5x5x10=250Gbs (and would probably suffer more negative modifiers to growth as well).

    The rule province action can be used to spend additional GBs to speed up the development, with each 1Gb spent providing a 1Gb growth. Since the DC of the action increases by an equal amount, there is a limit to how fast you can enhance the growth.

    Play testing:
    Over 20 turn of using this sustem, I have found that province grow at a reasonably enjoyable rate, but remain balanced. Few players use the rule province action with any regularity, since it is very costly. The exception is some players who like to speed up the growth of their capital province once in a while.

    Conclusion:
    Works fine for me, but is definitely very far form the original BR rules.

    Bj°rn

    >
    > Fra: Robin Cantin <rcantin@INTERLOG.COM>
    > Dato: 2002/12/04 Wed AM 03:51:35 CET
    > Til: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
    > Emne: Province level vs population
    >
    > Hi all.
    >
    > When Birthright came out, I think we all grappled with the concept of what was
    > happening to a province`s population when it whent up in levels. The thought of
    > a province (3) ruled to (6) going from population 10,000 to 40,000 in just one
    > year seems a little far-fetched, no matter how many grant of lands or
    > irrigration projects a Regent undertakes.
    >
    > My explaination, like many people, was to say province level reflects
    > infrastructure (irrigation, windmills, etc) as much as population, so that
    > province (6) might actually have far less people than the 40,000 stated in the
    > rulebook, but increases gradually to that level over time. The basic assumption
    > is that if a Regent makes the improvements, people will come eventually.
    >
    > But come from where? Natural growth? Without doing the math, it seems to me it
    > would take decades to get that kind of increase. Now Anuire is a small place, so
    > we can suppose most of the increase comes from immigration from other provinces
    > or even domains, unproductive citizens coming from somewhere and, thanks to the
    > new improvements.
    >
    > What if the province or small domain is practically cut off from the continent,
    > either because of distance or magic (Warding spell)? An influx of new population
    > would be needed at some point to allow growth. Anyone came up with a system to
    > limit province increases until the population catches up?
    >
    > Robin
    >
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    Cheers
    Bj°rn

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    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    The chief issue in growing a province isn't the cost its time. The government doesn't necessarily pay for the growth of the provinces. they do pay for infrastructure, but eh money involved also reflects advertising, tax breaks, housing projects etc. in attempt to draw more people to the region and expand the economy. The real expenses are borne by the merchants, pilgrims, etc. that come to the region.

    The chief complaint I have with the old 2e rules is ability to raise a province level at a faster than realistic rate. I've played in campaigns where the alternative is to extend the length of action to a flat one "Rule" per year... which is simple, but very generic. The best alternative (while still remaining "simple") is to adjust the rate of growth to be be 1 month per target level of the province. i.e. Going from a 2 to a 3 province takes 3 months (3-6,000 citizens). Growing from a 6 to a 7 province takes 7 months (10-30,000 citizens). Since the population distribution is on a sliding scale this allows for a more reasonable rate of growth. Its still skewed because a province could technically go from level 1 to level 10 in under 5 years, but its better than the original rules. Though personally, its up to the DM to monitor such abuse. I've never had players abuse the Domain Action, but there are plenty of ways to use up domain actions or resources to limit a province's growth. Spiteful DMs could use natural events or a hateful wizard to drop the province level and stall the process.

    Other DMs have changes the success roll for the action to have a higher difficulty, or prevent the use of RP or GBs to increase the chances of successfully increasing the province level.
    Servant of the Most High,
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