Province level vs population

[Birthright-L]

On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Gauthier wrote:
> There`s just one thing i`m not totaly agree with. It`s when
> ryancaveney says "the population (100.000) is already there".
> Well, I can rather imagine that in a coastal plain in temperate
> region, but even in that region it will be a rate of more than 30
> people by Km². It`s a little bit to many people, don`t you think
> so? In desertic or arctic region it`s for me totally impossible.

Medieval demographics made easy: the best page ever.
http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm

Average population density: 30/square mile for poor terrain, up to 120 for
fertile areas.

A BR province is like 35 by 35 miles on average. That`s 1225 square
miles.

For a plains province, max 100,000 people, that`s a population density of
81/mile^2. Not too high, in fact I`d say fertile plains provinces should
have a higher limit.

Your other objection, that the number is way too high for deserts, is
easily answered, because only plains have a limit of population 10. Other
terrain types are lower, which I`m sure is what Ryan meant, he was just
using plains as an example.

For poor terrain, 30/mile^2 gives us a population of 36750, which is about
a province level 6.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[ryancaveney]

On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, daniel mcsorley wrote:

> Your other objection, that the number is way too high for deserts, is
> easily answered, because only plains have a limit of population 10.
> Other terrain types are lower, which I`m sure is what Ryan meant, he
> was just using plains as an example.

Precisely. To treat Gauthier`s concerns (desert and arctic) directly:
maximum province level in the desert is 3, or 9,000 people (3 per square
kilometer); maximum tundra level is 2, or 4,000 people (1 per km^2); and
the glacier limit is only 1, or just 1,000 people (.3/km^2).


Ryan Caveney

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[ryancaveney]

On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Gauthier wrote:

> You will say it`s very quick, yes, but I think that my center view are
> my players, and it`s at their advantage, as far as it`s a little one.

Yes, it`s very quick. Too quick for me to believe, but still not fast
enough to be of much use. As you note, real population growth rates are
so small that if we link province level directly to number of inhabitants,
then almost no one ever gets to use a Rule Province action at all. Even
using your method of unnaturally fast growth, it would still take 70
domain turns to allow a province (1) to be ruled up to a province (2) --
and even then there is nothing for the player to do, in that population
growth just happens, and the number of turns in which a province will
increase its level all on its own without any player action can be
precisely calculated. Also, after just 58 years, every province (1) will
have turned into a province (10) -- what, in your view, was the population
of Cerilia at the time of Michael Roele? Deismaar?

Since I too am concerned about keeping the game fun, busy and complicated
for the players, I prefer to have an interpretation of the meaning of
province level which lets me leave the use of Rule Province restricted no
more than it is in the rulebook. I think my interpretation of province
level preserves both gameplay and biological realism, while yours
preserves neither -- I don`t think it solves the problem it`s meant to,
and I think it introduces another one besides. I prefer to alter the
meaning of the province level to population table, since I cannot see any
reasonable way to keep both it and the Rule Province action unchanged.


Ryan Caveney

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