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Thread: Leadership Feat
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12-04-2002, 08:43 AM #11
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On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 15:57, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
>
>
> PC`s are rarely looking for the same kind of chartacter for these two roles
> as well. Lieutenants are often something along the lines of being a 6th
> level aristocrat, or a 2nd level priest/4th level expert, both of which have
> skills that support domain maintenance (Diplomacy, Administration, Knowledge
> (Law). Cohorts, having a motivation to join a PC for different reasons,
> wants to follow the PC to take part in his adventures, and so is more often
> a more action-oriented class and isn`t so well prepared to stand in to
> administer a rule action or supervise construction.
>
> The fact that there can be a huge overlap between motivations, character
> concept and design, as well as actual duties being performed doesn`t force
> us to abandon the distinction.
Yes, so far.
> Cohorts, being attracted to the PC, are
> governed by the Leadership Feat. Powerful PC`s with the proper bonuses for
> the feat get more and better cohorts. Lieutenants, being attracted to the
> realm, are governed by a 3e version of the lieutenant rules.
(The concept is fine - and now you have to go spoil it all by placing
restrictions on implementation)
> Powerful
> realms attract better lieutenants.
Hmmmmm, really? Any justification for this? -- just extending from the
`more powerful characters get more and better cohorts` as a
generalization?
Quantity and quality determined by `power`. I don`t think I really like
that as an absolute rule. Perhaps quantity, but quality ?...
How do you rate a realm`s power?
Define `better` in the context of `better lieutenants` and `better
cohort`.
I think that "powerful characters will tend to have cohorts that are
more powerful than the cohorts of less powerful characters", where
"power" is defined in terms of effectiveness in adventuring actions.
But for domain regents, "powerful regents will tend to have lieutenants
that are more powerful than the lieutenants of less powerful regents",
where "power" is defined in terms of effectiveness in domain actions.
Even so, political power is not always held by "effective" men. (hence
the use of "tend to have").
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12-04-2002, 10:54 AM #12
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This is my vaersion of the Recruit Lieutenant action from
http://my.homeip.net/abbe/birthright/domai...on-lieRecr.html
As you can see, you can get very powerful lieutenants by spending loads of
RP.
A limit you have to know about is that nobody can spend more RP on a single
action than they have BloodlineRating - this includes lieutenant actions.
Thus, a low-bloodline lieutenant can be very valuable.
Lieutenant Recruiting
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
This action is used to recruit NPCs that can act as lieutenants or agents
for PCs. The lieutenants level is determined by the result of the die roll
(not the margin of success), and is equal to the roll divided by five (all
fractions are dropped). As the difficulty of the action is 15, lieutenants
are of at least third level.
A randomly generated lieutenant`s level can be no higher than yours at the
time of creation. The lieutenant will advance in level like any other NPC.
A lieutenant is 1d6 years old per level (including the first). To this is
added a base depending on rance and gender. Races marked * roll d10 instead
of d6 for level-based age.
10 Human Female
15 Human Male
20 Halfling, Half-elf*
40 Dwarf*
A lieutenant can be blooded. For every five points of penalty you take on
your Recruit Lieutenant action, the lieutenant has a blood rating of 1d6+2.
Blood ratings under 5 are latent, and have no effect on the game.
A lieutenant can be of your own race or human at no penalty. Any other race
gives a -5 modifier on the recruiting action. A lieutenant should be
generated as a full NPC.
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12-04-2002, 02:32 PM #13Originally posted by Birthright-L
A lieutenant is 1d6 years old per level (including the first). To this is
added a base depending on rance and gender. Races marked * roll d10 instead
of d6 for level-based age.
10 Human Female
15 Human Male
20 Halfling, Half-elf*
40 Dwarf*
May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!
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12-04-2002, 02:33 PM #14
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lubke" <peterlubke@OPTUSNET.COM.AU>
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:45 PM
> Quantity and quality determined by `power`. I don`t think I really like
> that as an absolute rule. Perhaps quantity, but quality ?...
There is no such thing as an absolute rule in social affairs. Humans have
the ability to make choices, and so will from time to time make choices that
defy the trends identified. No DM should ever be constrained by what is
generally the case when developing a specific locale. The reason one wants
to spend time in advance imagining what is generally the case is to guide
the bulk of descriptions. Exceptions are often the interesting stuff that
adventures include.
Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com
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12-04-2002, 02:54 PM #15
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No. This is about the age of the lieutenant- A female lieutenant is younger
than a male one.
My version of BR is not gender-neutral. Among other things, females are
generally considered full-grown much earlier than men. Thus the age
difference.
> Ariadne wrote:
>
a male? We are in a fantasy world: There is NO discrimination of females...
>
>
>
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12-04-2002, 03:03 PM #16Originally posted by Birthright-L
[...]My version of BR is not gender-neutral. Among other things, females are
generally considered full-grown much earlier than men. Thus the age
difference [...].
Anuire is a dublicate of the european middle age, but they needn't to copy everything, it's fantasy!May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!
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12-04-2002, 04:45 PM #17
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From: "Ariadne" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
> Anuire is a dublicate of the european middle age, but they needn`t to
copy everything, it`s fantasy!
>
I`m not sure if making the age of adulthood lower is really reducing the
value of women!
I have many strong females IMC - Including 2 1/2 female PCs. When the
characters were last away on a long adventure, women ran the country.
But that is not the same as saying the sexes are the same or equal.
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12-04-2002, 10:23 PM #18
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On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
> Dogberry is the character played by Micheal Keaton in Branagh`s "Much
> Ado About Nothing". This lieutenant of the old Leonato is probabaly a
> 2nd level commoner. Comic presentation not withstanding.
Dogberry is a Commoner 2, but perhaps Mr. Keaton is a Comic Actor 10. =)
Ryan Caveney
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12-04-2002, 10:59 PM #19
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On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Peter Lubke wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 15:57, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
>
> > Powerful realms attract better lieutenants.
>
> Hmmmmm, really? Any justification for this? -- just extending from
> the `more powerful characters get more and better cohorts` as a
> generalization?
It`s rather like a modern application for employment -- bigger and
better-known realms attract a larger pool of applicants, richer ones can
offer better benefits, and powerful ones offer the ambitious greater
possibilities of advancement; so if a big, rich realm hires the same
number of lieutenants as a small, poor realm, the average quality of those
hired can generally be greater. The justification is also expressed by
saying "powerful realms have an easier time keeping better lieutenants" --
if the Lord Mayor of Seaharrow acquires a lieutenant who quickly proves
himself to be the most able administrator in all Boeruine, the Archduke
will certainly grab him away for his own service. Bigger regents can
also easily steal good lieutenants away from smaller ones who aren`t their
feudal underlings simply by offering a more important job at a higher
salary and with better prospects for advancement.
> How do you rate a realm`s power?
Easy first answer: domain points needed to create the realm from scratch,
including army, treasury, banked RP, etc. This should also be modified
somehow by the bloodline strength of the regent.
> Define `better` in the context of `better lieutenants` and `better
> cohort`.
Better at doing what you generally use them for, just as you and Kenneth
both have done.
> Even so, political power is not always held by "effective" men. (hence
> the use of "tend to have").
Indeed. Some variation is required, especially as you say for sinecures
for ineffective cronies (to account for this, perhaps it is better to say
that the "maximum available effectiveness" is a function of realm power),
and also for good people who refuse to take "better" jobs when offered
them (my family has served his family for twelve generations, your Grace,
so I must respectfully decline your generous offer). But as a starting
point from which to introduce variations, lieutenant power proportional to
realm power seems best.
Ryan Caveney
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12-05-2002, 12:38 AM #20
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On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 01:32, Ariadne wrote:
> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1125
>
> Ariadne wrote:
>
There is in my campaign. Women in Anuire and (to a lesser extent)
Brechtur have far fewer rights.
But of course you are correct, there shouldn`t be a rule that
discriminates.
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